Originally from Kharkiv, Ukraine, Jamal left the country with his girlfriend and daughter following the Russian invasion. He now works as an attorney and civil activist in Haarlem and manages the Ukrainian Diaspora page on Facebook.

How did you end up in the Netherlands?
I came from Ukraine as a refugee in March 2022 with family a week after the Russian invasion. I had been here in the Netherlands a few times before and it is the country I like the most in Europe. I like the infrastructure, everything is clean, and the economy is good. Everything is great, only the weather is not perfect. 

How do you describe yourself – an expat, lovepat, immigrant, international?
I originally came as a refugee. I am not an expat now, but I am a foreigner. Maybe after three years of living here, I qualify as an immigrant because I am so connected with the country.

Getting back to Ukraine would not be easy for us or many like us. My daughter speaks Dutch now and is going to a Dutch school. I am also very connected and have many friends here. So I still think I’m a refugee, but I have also become an immigrant.

How long do you plan to stay?
I now think it will be forever. I don’t see any option to return, but I don’t know the future. Maybe after a few years, we will decide to go.

Do you speak Dutch and how did you learn?
Yeah, I speak like maybe A1 or A2 level Dutch. My speaking is not very good, but I understand almost everything. From time to time, I have taken courses. My last one ended in January and I will start a new one soon. So I’m learning Dutch, but it’s pretty hard since everybody speaks English.

The language is not difficult. The difficult part is trying to communicate in Dutch. When you try, like in a supermarket or cafe, everybody switches to English. When people hear my accent, they speak English. In Spain or France, if you don’t know the local language, you have to learn it. But here, it is so multicultural and modern that it is not needed.

What’s your favourite Dutch thing?
The thing I like the most and they are super Dutch, an that is agendas. Everyone has them and I like them. Before I started living here, I also had one, but it wasn’t so full. It’s very productive, it’s all about the productivity. It helps you do lots of things, meet with lots of people, and plan everything a month or two months ahead of time. Agendas give you more opportunities to make projects and schedule meetings.

How Dutch have you become?
This is a super difficult question. I’m maybe 20 to 30% Dutch. I eat Dutch food and have some Dutch habits. For example, I sort through my garbage now for recycling and have adjusted to what is available in the supermarkets. I also plan everything with my agenda.

But to become fully Dutch, you have to maybe live here for 20 or 30 years. I think it takes that long before you start to think like the Dutch. I still think like a Ukrainian guy.

Which three Dutch people (dead or alive) would you most like to meet?
Mark Rutte. It would be interesting to have dinner with him. I would like to learn about his life and more about everything he is doing now.

Vincent van Gogh. I would like to meet him, but how Dutch was he? He lived half his life in Belgium and France, but originally he was Dutch. I would like to see his mood and learn more about the type of thinking of this man, about what kind of character he had, and if he would be rude or happy. Maybe he was super nice and friendly. Nobody really knows.

Rembrandt. He lived at a time when the culture here was very different, but he was very involved in society. He knew lots of people, those involved with trading, and even the king. He knew both rich and poor people. I would like to talk to him about what it was like in the past.

What’s your top tourist tip?
Only visit if it’s summer. If you ask someone who visited here in the summer and someone else who came during a different season, you will get two different opinions. The summer is a really beautiful time here.

Tell us something surprising you’ve found out about the Netherlands.
The Netherlands is an almost completely flat country. I don’t know if there is another country that exists that is so flat. It also has super good infrastructure. You can bike across the entire country and you don’t have to worry about any hills.

There are also the stairs. I have never seen steps so super high and super tiny. They’re so lean, tight, and steep. I don’t like them, but they are super Dutch. You don’t see them in other countries.

Almost everybody who comes to visit me, I take them to eat herring. They don’t know about it, but they’re always super happy to try it and they like it. Usually we go to a place in Scheveningen or Zandpoort to have them at one of the kiosks. 

If you had just 24 hours left in the Netherlands, what would you do?
I would like to just cycle around Amsterdam, visit the cafes, and drink beer while enjoying being around the people. Maybe I would take a boat and go through the canals. I would want to spend the whole day in Amsterdam and hope the weather would be good. I would want to enjoy the cycling, the food, the beer, and just the life here and being here.

Jamal Statsenko was talking to Brandon Hartley.

Click here to visit the Ukrainian Diaspora Facebook page, which provides helpful information and advice for those new to the Netherlands. You can also learn more about Jamal and his work via his LinkedIn page.