Oh boy, you really don't want to hear about my experiences with the inburgeringscursus! Let's just say that the whole experience has been a very frustrating joke and a huge waste of time. I'd get myself far too wound up if I started recalling all my pain...

By simplastic | August 25, 2009 3:05 PM

When I moved to Utrecht, because of my partner's work, I tried to enrol for the Inburgering cursus to learn Dutch and Dutch culture and make it easier for me to integrate in the country.

To my surprise, I was refused allegedly because when asked for the duration of my stay in the country I answered the truth:"five years" wich is the length of my partner's post in The Netherlands.

I must say that the person in charge to communicate me the decision was a bit embarrased, as she understood that 5 years is a considerably long period to deserve an opportunity for integration courses.

At the time, I assumed that the refusal was due to the high demand for these courses and a the need to give priority to other applicants. After reading this piece of news I don't know what to think.

By Esperanza Martínez | August 25, 2009 3:57 PM

Hello,

I have heard of these integration courses but have not attended anyway. I lived in Amsterdam for two years, but have moved to Ireland for work.

I intend to move back to Holland mid-next week.

Could I have further information on integration courses? Particularly those surrounding cultural and language. I am currently learning Dutch.

Are there any opportunities for Expats to do volunteer work?
Apologies for not sending the expected feedback.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind regards,

Barrijean

By barrijean walsh | August 25, 2009 4:03 PM

Hmm.. I wonder if the announcement that the €270 fee would later be scrapped is the reason why everyone's postponing their integration course? Perhaps when the fee is actually scrapped, there will be 100,000 applications! Duh...

By Matt | August 25, 2009 4:06 PM

I have completed 4 years in The netherlands. Myself and my wife are running around the Taal PUnt for the dutch language course and they keep on rejecting basis silly reasons.Minister says that they are committed to increase the number.We are still trying to get the integration course.Its really contradictory to see this kind of news

By HPR vulapu | August 25, 2009 4:20 PM

I did the required inburgering course at ROC in Deventer. The teachers were excellent and if you wanted to learn Dutch sufficiently to be able to qualify for citizenship without having to take any extra tests, the course was wonderful.

Like any program of education, you get out of it what you put into it. I saw a significant proportion of my class there because they were required to be there. They had lived in Holland for up to 13 years in some cases and they still had only the most rudimentary of Dutch language skills. By the end of the program that hadn't changed much in many of the instances.

I don't get it, personally. Why would someone want to come live here if not for what Holland is and has to offer? Why then refuse to do anything to integrate into the society and system? If it's so terrible, why are they here?

By Ronen Ben-Hai | August 25, 2009 4:38 PM

In 2007/8 I signed-up to this in Leiden - twice, as I recall.

I was signed-up in 2008 by a social worker in Den Haag.

I'm still waiting to actually get on a course!

By Gerard | August 25, 2009 5:01 PM

This is 100% true. Because the dutch are forcing this on me and I have lived here over 10 years. We are leaving Holland. It is one demand after another. First the language crap, now this. This isn't freedom anymore.
The family that leaves with me are ALL born dutch.
We know others leaving to. Some for OZ some the USA. Enough is enough with the flake demands.

By OZER | August 25, 2009 5:20 PM

What integration course - this is the first we've heard of it, and we're enthusiastic to "seize the chances" on offer. Government-sponsored Dutch lessons for say 500 hours would be a welcome start to any integration.

By Not for Publication | August 25, 2009 5:31 PM

Scrap the whole idea of "integration" and offer free Dutch language (only) lessons. The condescending approach to foreigners to expect them to adopt Dutch social norms "inburggering", which many of us find demeaning (especially when many of the norms are lower than our home countries), is a waste of time/money and will only cause a larger social divide.

By Quest | August 25, 2009 5:39 PM

Well, that explains a lot. I'm taking the inburgering course now, and don't care for it for many reasons. I'm not sure if that's the same as an integration course, nor was I asked for the 270 Euro fee. I've had problem after problem with this course from the very beginning.

By Kitania Kavey | August 25, 2009 5:53 PM

Scrap fees for courses and make courses equally available free for all. Not just migratnts from lower classes and teh more educated ones will certainly willingly join the banner and promote as well as take up these integration and language courses. We are teh educated highly skilled lot and we are the most ignored. When we are willing we are asked to pay or no options are given as equal . let all gementees have same rules and same rights to all levels of people then its a fair game and we will willingly participate.

Vinay Kulkarni

By Vinay Kulkarni | August 25, 2009 5:57 PM

This is the most irrelevant thing the Dutch gov is offering. We go there and learn about homosexuality and related things. I think we can learn everything through time. We are killing ourselves sitting in a class for nothing. Only a week's course of integration is enough. Give free language courses, and the opportunity of joining universities or other institutions. I remorse coming to the Netherlands because of this integration course. No one can inegrate fully if you are forcing him to inegrate. Integartion is a matter of will. I think we are finishing our age of trying to implement this false and useless startegy. Every one should get citizenship regardless of integartion courses if the government belives that the guy has a good behavior. Finished. Please remove this funny thing called integration. Make Holland a country of simplicity where everyone can leave withour burden. I studied at the higher universities in my country to the level of third degree, now you ask me to study the Dutch culture and many useless things. I came here not because of my choice; the situation of my coutry forced me to come here, now you ask me to study another irrelevant courses. Please, change your policy.

By F | August 25, 2009 7:34 PM

Sure!! From this year those courses are not available for everyone!!! For EU people not so easy join this course. I'm Polish and on the beginning city of hall push me to pay full amount for the course!!! So why now they are surprised!!!

By JJ | August 25, 2009 8:22 PM

It doesn't matter, how good is the 'plan' for integration from the government, if the real situation is not suitable for new dutch to participate. There are more barrier that Dutch people put for making distance, racism even that they'd never want to admit it.

By sunny | August 25, 2009 8:59 PM

It's disappointing that some of us who REALLY wanna take the integration course are not allowed to because our resident permit bears 'bepalde tijd', and yet we see city councils flaming that not enough people have signed up! Why don't they make it accessible to all? Does one have to be an assylum seeker to qualify?

By Mollynn | August 25, 2009 10:27 PM

Well, I am living in Netherlands from last 2.5 years as Highly skilled migrant. And I am doing the inburgerings course from last 4-5 months. It was in Feb 2009 that I received call from Gemeente's Taalwijzer telling me that It is mandatory (Verplicht) for me to undergo this course. When I asked for the same course my wife (who is also a highly skilled migrant) they offered her a different one(It was stads examen) Which is more difficult and is similar to a language lessons in Highschool/graduation level. When I discussed my situation with my other expat friends they had different experiences. They had to join private Dutch lessons by paying fees all by themselves. I fail to understand the criteria followed by Gemeente. Definitly there is an apparent gap between government´s policy and its implementation at the grass root level.

By S.A. | August 26, 2009 8:43 AM

I'm really surprised why the Gemeente asked S.A. to enroll for the Inburgeringscursus. As far as I am aware, these are offered only to those Knowledge Migrants who wish to apply for Citizenship. Govt. officers are the same everywhere.

By Abisurd | August 26, 2009 9:21 AM

Why are the Dutch so worried about people integrating? I understand if you want to become a Dutch Citizen, you must take a citizenship test etc. What I do not understand is why residence who are not citizens and wish to remain citizens of their home country and Dutch must take this silly course etc.
Why the waste of precious tax dollars and time? I mean if you want to be a citizen, you need to pass a test and if you do not then you are not a citizen. EASY!
I feel it is a tool to make budgets fat and discriminate. Why not put those tax dollars in the crap system where it could really help Dutch society.
I took the course back a couple years ago, got ill and dropped out, then they changed the laws and said I had to pay for it. The course sucked, it was a huge tax on my time and I really do not care to integrate to Dutch government standards, why does it matter? I am not a citizen nor do I want to be. So I just have waited it out… see what happens will they fine me, tell me to leave? Doubtful considering the tax money I shell out.
Further more to those who ask why don’t some people care about language etc… Some people have integrated to a place they feel comfy with why do you care if they don’t speak lovely Dutch and enjoy Dutch Birthday parties and customs.

By LiefLife | August 26, 2009 9:41 AM

As I`m an expat - Am I an immigrant too?
I do not how many years I will be here?
Depends on many different things, job at first.

What will happen if I will not pass the compulsory integration exam? Will I be banned from society? What about my job than and my company, that wants me here and prolonged my contract?
Will the government pay for my home rental agreement here?
Should I prepare some kind of flag that I will put on my balcony or I will be marked with a tatoo or sth?

Funny when you read it, not so much when you think about it.

I do not want to be "Dutched" here. I`m proud to bring something Polish to this country and happy to receive something Dutch from it.

By Papke | August 26, 2009 11:12 AM

I moved here almost 8 yrs ago and in less than a year I was FORCED to take the course or leave the country. I was not given an other options. Had I come a year earlier I would not have been required to attend because I'm from America. British people still don't have to.. why not? We both speak English. WHy does the American HAVE to learn Dutch but the Brits do not?

Luckily we did not have to pay for anything but it was a YEAR long course and brutal. It was 4 days per week, 2 days were 3 hours and 2 days were 6 hours. It was like I was back in high school!

I agree with offering language only because the whole culture crap was a waste of time... here's a clue Dutchies, not every person who is DUTCH even agrees with all that you are teaching in the classes. My husband could barely pass the culture parts of the test.

I find it very unfair of a commenter above to say that if we chose to live here it was to take advantage of all this (CRAPPY!!!!) country has to offer. No, I did not move here for any benefits of this country. My husband is dutch and he has the better education for employment and finances. We responsibly decided together that this was where we would live. Offer me a course for free if I so desire and I might take you up on it.. force me kicking and screaming into one and I don't want to learn. I think for the first months I just sat in a chair, arms crossed, and refused to speak.

It really was so friendly of the teachers that if I truly did not understand something that they refused to just tell me the English word for it when they could speak English fine.

Bitter? nawww not me /sarcasm!

By Laura | August 26, 2009 12:29 PM

On a side note.. what did everyone think of those commericals awhile back? Let's put the whole commercial in dutch with no subtitles.. that'll sure get the NON DUTCH SPEAKERS to pay attention :P

I'm thinking the dutch are just stupid.. anyone with me?

By Laura | August 26, 2009 12:31 PM

Living in the Netherlands over 10 years, I do not want to integrate with the Dutch. I live here for the money and English is good enough. I never intended to stay here for good and as soon as opportunity comes, will be gone. Anyway, what is integrating? My husband is Dutch, his family only has Dutch friends and whenever we meet for the boring birthdays, even if I try to speak Dutch, they are not warm and open people. They might play it that way, but can feel they think "another bloody foreigner here"who wants to stay here... Terrible wheather, tiny and expensive houses, no nature and unfriendly arrogant people. Who the hell wants to stay here for good? No me.

By Anomym | August 26, 2009 2:15 PM

Good day,
I would like to comment on the integration course. When i first came to the Netherlands; I was eager to start school and had to wait so i wanted to improve my speaking skills and get a diploma to open more possibilities for me. I was eager to learn but then i attended the course.

Here are some of things that happened to me in this integration course and trying to get it;
**Misinformation from rumors about countries** (Geography and diversity of cultures integrating)

I was told most Antilleans do not bother taking the course so i asked for it rite away to better communicate in the countries native tongue.

**Denial of courses**
When requesting it they made me wait 11 months to receive it at which my schooling began and had first a very hectic schedule with no pauses. I had to go back and forth for various departments during these 11 months.

**Mis communication and misinformed structure**
Secondly i asked if i could attend the first months in the day and switch to the nite later on which they told me was impossible. Later i got a presentation from department which said just that when i asked her during the presentation she told me after and i waited my turn to speak to her. She noticed this and promptly disappeared as to not to answer any questions. .

** Ill treatment of student** (lack of empathy,compassion or understanding)

Further in the course one day i became very ill and asked the teacher to go home, everyone in the class knew and could see i was ill but she refused tell me i have to stay right there i pleading with her 3 times asking her to go home she refused till the last time she walked out while answering me and i could not hear or keep up because i was very ill. My colleagues from class told me go home which i barely made it and live close by.After this day when i nearly fell down in the class due to my two school bookings because of planning and timing of these courses when ever i felt remotely ill i did not attend. Until this was done i had perfect attendance and was one of the final straws against my further participation.

** Shown lack of care**
Writing letters to the school address was always sent back as well when you needed to contact them without replies which i still have in my in boxes for proof.

**indirect threats**
Among other things like the fact the usual words of encouragement when asking a question in class what you do not understand is or else "you will not get a dutch passport and be able to stay in the Netherlands."which i already posses which is used as threat to immigrants who be forceful pressured to attend classes that feel you should not be here.

These are just some of the activities i noticed during this course; my dutch friend state that people should go to the discrimination office but most people do not understand your system and integration courses do not teach you where key services are in the dutch society to complain.

I came here with high hopes to learn dutch buying book, reading subtitles and everything after what i saw in the course my interest was severely hurt and i do not feel comfortable with language as i first felt when i came.

My friend in school helped me a lot as well as the last teacher in the integration course we had after most had left Jan but it was too late as damage was done with the cruel treatment prior. The problem with these courses are the treatment of the people in them; if you ask around most people will tell you they had similar experiences and just do it so they can stay as they if they complain they will not be given a residency permit.That is sad to say.

I still believe in the dutch culture and what i believe it stands for "which is one man freedom should not hinder another mans freedom" but as of recently the public has been grossly misinfomred about culture and what they stand for as well as the percentage of criminals and where they actually originate from by using words that group people. I have encountered underlined racism (even experienced by police)here too but most of the dutch people i met outside and a few of the people major cities are warm and loving people with big hearts nothing like what i saw in the course. The people higher up as well also have this attitude while the ones below just do a job. The business of hiding behind letters and feeling to speak to people in derogatory and arrogant manner is what has caused some integration problems here. Most people leave countries to grow in education and in life...

I will not lie this is not no Caribbean but the warmth here comes from when you find good traditional dutch people that you can share your culture and they are willing to share back and be bias but real. The weather takes some getting used to and the fact that alot of people do not know the differences in culture can be changed by our actions as well as theirs. I will bever turn my back on my dutch friends and always try contribute to the society because where ever i live is my home but it is not easy here when most people judge you as a foreigner who comes to break down their country.

Dank uw wel voor je tijd

By Rainer. K | August 29, 2009 8:12 AM

I had occasion to examine an entrance level text book for this course and what struck me was that the principles of secular democracy were not covered. There is no mention of citizenship and it's benefits and responsibilities, no history of the development of freedom of religion, or the application of human rights by law and due process, or the advantages of general education offered in a modern free society. I think that this omission is a serious oversight and to address it as soon as possible would have very positive results.

When hear of the low turn out for most elections here in the Netherlands I wonder if the subject is generally ignored.

In general, the treatment of the material was 'dumbed down'. I wonder why?

Regards,
S. Russell

By Sydney Russell | August 29, 2009 3:04 PM

This integration course has been cunningly designed to slow down the number of immigrants outside the EEC namely Muslims that want to live here.
The government's racist plan will not work, only about 20 years too late!
Who knows, maybe in the future we will have to integrate with them, how's your Arabic?

By stevie | August 29, 2009 6:51 PM

I wasted 8 months in an integration course. Here is the story. I was asked to attend a group named "gabbers" for one month. I studied chapter 1 to 1.3 in that group. Skipping chapters from 1.4 till 15. Then I was shifted to another group and started from chapter 16 till 17. Skipping the rest of the chapters.Then I was shifted to another group called "Nozims". I started from chapter 26 till 27 and then the summer vacations came. When I asked my teacher, that I do not know even the basic grammer etc, she told me that is not important. You do not need 100 % accurate nederlands for the exam. I told her that I need it for my carrier and she told me you can do it later.
I stopped wasting my time further because after chapter 30, I have to appear in the examin and there were fifty-fifty chances that I can pass the examin, without knowing the language.
The schools are doing this to all the students because they want to admit new students and to get more money from the Gemeente. They are not interested to teaching. They are just interested to push you forward to make room for new comers and get more money.

By J.Khan | September 9, 2009 12:24 PM