Wilders should still do more to solve the problem in a constructive/positive way.

He could make suggestions how to help the muslims already here become part of our society (without making islam and political islam more part of our society): With language courses, or suggestions on integration.

In my oppinion we need more efforts for the integration of PEOPLE, but we should not invest any efforts for the integration of "islam" into our society: No more mosques, no faith schools - but helping immigrants to be "european" instead.

By Max Schneider | July 20, 2010 9:37 AM

Max, "european" has nothing to do with religion. what harm is building mosques in holland churches in israel or temples in egypt? why not just let people believe what they want? for all his criticism Wilders seems to forget all the harm christians and jews have inflicted on others. it is not solely muslims who are a threat. look what happened in srebencia. so get over it. no one is asking you to be a muslim and if someone decides to go to a mosque how does that influence ur life? good or bad?
Wilders needs to find a new line coz this one is boring and makes no sense. he sounds like the upcoming Hitler!

By jen | July 20, 2010 6:33 PM

Max, you can't integrate people who don't want to integrate. The stated aim of Islam is to convert the whole of humanity to their faith. Integration of muslims has failed in every country with a large immigrant population. Meanwhile atheists, agnostics, buddhists, christians, etc... of all races have successfully integrated. Islam isn't compatible with Western civilization, end of story.

By Emily | July 20, 2010 6:36 PM

'the problem' doesnt exist. Its an irrational sense of fear created by people like wilders and believed in by people like yourself.

By mark | July 20, 2010 10:53 PM

Wilders says "Girls are not valued highly in Islam; the Koran says that the birth of a daughter makes a father’s “face darken and he is filled with gloom” (sura 43:17)."

this is a commom mistake while reading Qod's words. If you do not read and understand it as a whole you fool yourself. Wilders cut and paste a sentence then comments on it as this sentence represents Quran but this is stupid. Here Qod describes behaviour of people before Islam at Arabian Peninsula. this description is not the order of the Qod of Islam.

By hasan | July 20, 2010 11:19 PM

@ Jen
"why not just let people believe what they want? for all his criticism Wilders seems to forget all the harm christians and jews have inflicted on others. it is not solely muslims who are a threat. look what happened in srebencia. so get over it. no one is asking you to be a muslim and if someone decides to go to a mosque how does that influence ur life? good or bad? "

That is the whole point Jen. Islam does not allow freedom of religion or free speech. Therefore if you want these freedoms you have to stoop Islam.

When in the last few centuries did Christians and Jews do what Muslims are doing now? The Roman Catholic Jihad was stopped by the rise of the secular government. Protestant Christian values gave rise to the whole idea of the secular government, as is enshrined in the American Constitution.

The Qur'an does not tolerate the idea of a secular government. Islam is not a religion. It is a totalitarian fascist political ideology in which dissent is punishable by death. Or worse.

By bielie | July 21, 2010 4:19 PM

Good one Hasan, more mulims need to be on here defending their own religion and showing Wilders up for the uneducated airhead he really is.
Emily - 'Meanwhile atheists, agnostics, buddhists, christians, etc... of all races have successfully integrated' where are u living? utopia? in ur dreams? ur statement suggests that the only conflicts in the whole world are between muslims and others and btween anyone else..? wow all my history books and all current news stories must be ALL wrong!

By jen | July 21, 2010 7:47 PM

Jen, I'm referring to europe. Presumably this is where you live too or you wouldn't be posting on this site? How can you explain that other non-european immigrants have integrated and most muslims haven't? Did you know for instance that france has over 250,000 people of vietnamese descent. How come they integrated without problems?
In the coming decades, most of Europe will be experiencing major civil unrest as a result of our insane policy towards extremists. We should never appease islamic extremists, they are worse then Hitler and remember what happened when we tried to appease him...

By Emily | July 22, 2010 9:47 AM

I have never heard so much ignorance and drivel in my whole life!

I am a practising muslim and I am well integrated, speak the language relatively well and have full respect for freedom of speech, religion, sexual orientation and so on and so on....Did I learn that in Europe? heck no, I learned it in my Muslim country of origin. Just because a religio states that it is opposed to Homosexuality, it does not mean you should bash homosexuals. It is a matter between you and wharever the heck you believe in. Do we have ignorant Muslims; of course, do we have ignorant non muslims? absolutely. So why is it when an aggresive act comes from a christian or a jew, it is non religious but from a Muslim, it is always religious!!!

Geerts reasoning is flawed, those who agree with him need to take a deep look at themselves and ask the question, had there been no muslims in Europe, would things be different? or would they find another scapegoat?

Based on Bieli and Emilys comments above, it seems some preconceived judgments and ideas will never change.. Exactly like the Crusaders when they launched their crusades. Wilders comments do not hold water and can destroyed even by non expert like myself. no wonder he does not want to debate an expert.

90 percent of the muslim countries are secular. What pisses me off is that Some europeans want to force their own ideas of secularism, human rights and norms on 2 billion muslims. Ask yourself this question, out of 2 billion, how many are terrorists? Please stop patronising a religion and its people like the neon-cons are doing and these problems will go away. And in case you did not know, muslims are obliged to respect the rules and laws of the country they live in but are not obliged to follow like blind sheep just because a superior Europen thinks they should.

By Saladin | July 22, 2010 2:29 PM

Wilder is playing the same game as the Bush did means game of fear. If you want safety then vote for me otherwise Taliban will take over America, same is here Islam is dangerous for Netherlands and Quran is deadly book so it should be banned.. Same I have seen in Taliban they claim that if you need Islam then vote for us. So logically there is no difference b/w Wilder and Taliban or Bush or same sort of other politics. They make the people fearful and get the power.
Further there is a difference b/w Islam and culture of Islamic lands, what we mostly see in Islamic lands is not the Islam but a culture of that land.

By Meh | July 22, 2010 11:11 PM

@bielie and all those who think that Islam does not allow freedom of religion or secular ideas:
The concept of freedom of religion was established almost 1500 years ago by the Islam. The Quran state as follows:

There should be no compulsion in religion. (Ch.2:V.257)

And if your Lord had enforced His will, surely, all who are on the earth would have believed together. Will you, then, force men to become believers? (Ch.10:V.100)

Included in the freedom to practice one’s faith and to be free from coercion is also the freedom to change one’s faith. This freedom is included in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

(O Prophet) proclaim, ‘This is the truth from your Lord, so let him who will believe, and let him who will, disbelieve… (Ch.18:V.30)

Say, ‘O ye disbelievers! ‘I worship not that which you worship; ‘Nor worship you what I worship.‘And I am not going to worship that which you worship;‘Nor will you worship what I worship. ‘For you your religion, and for me my religion.’ (109:2-7)

Now what is left about freedom?
*Wilder is just pasting wrong ref on wrong place, and you Deliberately ignorant people are accepting his views..

By Meh | July 23, 2010 8:13 AM

Wow....I realise now where a few of Wilder's issues stem from..... but it's like reading just one side of the coin....and he is talking about 1982...the world has moved forward for many of these nations that he has mentioned....... and some of his facts are completely wrong....

He has tagged India in the same group as Iran, Saudi..etc which is completely wrong. Present day India with its 1.2 billion population is 85 % NON MUSLIMS......so how does he tag them as Islamist....and as far as I know it is one of the fastest developing nation in the world

Quran is a book to be read like a book just like one would read the Bible.......it has also been mentioned in the new testament of the Bible about the dress code of women which also mentions a headscarf and if you just point out that passage as the total gist of the Bible you would have a completely new notion of Christianity.....Wilders cannot take out certain random sentences from the Quran and put it up as the heart and soul of Islam......

Yes Islam is get caught up in a fatalist approach, but one forgets that for every bunch of fatalist there is a counter bunch of non fatalist muslims who are striving to move forward and Wilders with his agendas is sidelining them as well which is counterproductive to the theories he has proposed.....

I feel that Wilders is still caught up in the 80's/90's...issues which have shaped his agendas....He should revise his agendas to present day scenerios......There may be a completely educated and foward thinking Muslim woman who wishes to wear a headscarf....would he ban her freedom to wear what she wants just because of his twisted notion of what he thinks is freedom.....

By Wendy | July 23, 2010 9:58 AM

In the past few centuries, what bad things have the Christians done? 16-17th Century: murder of intellectuals, when the churches forced the intelligentsia into hiding.
20th Century: Hitler, Mussolini were Christians, not Muslims.
I have met believers of Islam, who believe with "logic", Islam is the best. They are not fanatics, and don't force it on anyone, but if you ask them a particular part about their religion, they give justification of sensible parts, and like we call them "prejudiced", prove us to be prejudiced with self-formed notions of their religion.
Personally, I don't like Islam teachings either, especially of spreading it to the whole world, but somehow in all this, I find deep selfish motives and possible tyranny by Wilders (http://www.digitaljournal.com/blog/8006) or, the mere insecurity of the West at being challenged by someone they thought they had tamed. In the exact same tone as Hitler reproached the Jews for their Acts of Faith, Wilders does the same to Muslims.
The notion of all religions uniting against Islam is horrible and flawed. True, Islam can't integrate with other cultures. What is the need? I haven't experienced any force till now by any Muslim, having lived with many Muslims nearby. Indeed, I often feel pity at the common Muslim, who is afraid of "his leaders" who make reproachable laws like Sharia as well as the "other leaders" who chase down not just their leaders, but them.

By Minnaar van Kennis | July 23, 2010 10:26 PM

I think Wilder is failing to see the affects of government on religion as an explanation for some of the experiences he had in the Near-East. The problem in the middle east isn't Islam, the problem is there is no separation between church and state. If the state is freed from religion and vice versa, and government recognized basic human rights (ie, property rights, speech, economic rights, etc) than people (regardless of their faith) would naturally seek to improve their lives and promote progress through commerce.
Here in the USA I've had several Muslim friends and they are fully integrated and have never exhibited any of the negative behaviors that Wilder described. Now, you could ask why is the Muslim experience so different here than in Europe? Well, firstly, here in the US a person's religion is a private matter and is not considered a matter of the state. It is ILLEGAL for government to either promote, or impede, religion - why Europeans nations fund religious schools (causing schisms with the non-religious tax payer) is beyond reason. Secondly, the USA is perhaps a little more receptive to immigrants than Europe, since we are a nation of immigrants (although, we still fear the 'stranger' just as much as anybody else does).
Most Muslims like Christians have never read their holy book, this is true even in Muslim states. So, quoting the Quran as a reason to fear Islam, is no different than quoting the Bible to invoke fear of Christianity (ex: Leviticus and the Book of Joshua). If Islam truly was the 'problem', then whatever the 'problem' is would exist wherever Muslims reside, and this isn't the case here in the U.S.
I think the only 'problem' that exist in Europe towards Muslims is they don't act, look, or speak like everyone else in Europe - therein lies the real problem that Wilder truly hates.

By William | August 2, 2010 8:04 AM

Saladin:

I live in a Muslim country, right now, in 2010, and the same things that Wilder's said are completely, 100% true today as they were in 1982, the year I was born.

Your claims about being both a practicing Muslim and tolerant of such things as homosexuality, Jews, and women's rights are completely in contrast with what is taught in Mosques, and what can be found in the Koran. I find it funny that whenever a passage from the Koran is quoted, Muslims always turn to the copout of "taken out of context." I'm sorry, but saying that it is a wife's duty "to obey her husband in all positions: sitting, standing, on her back, or on her stomach". (See Book of Women).

Next to making excuses about context, the next thing that Muslims do with the Koran is change the text when they translate it into English. This I learned from my boss, who is Coptic, and from my own studies in Arabic. So pulling out one of your Western-version, Islam-lite translations and trying to convince confused and (not in a pejorative sense) ignorant Westerners that your religion is as peaceful and progressive as any other is hideously deceitful. Why don't you translate the Koran correctly in English, Dutch, French, etc - with the passages about men being allowed to beat their wives, Muhammed glorifying about murdering Jews (see the Flotilla videos of your "martyrs" singing passages from your book).

Why is the context never clear, and why is your book's translation different in Western languages?

Regarding the Crusades: They happened at a period in history when people still believed that dragons occupied certain geographic territories. If you are going to talk about 1982 as being far distant, then stop bringing up the Crusades. NOWHERE in the New Testament does Jesus in any way, in-or-out of context, condone violence. Can you find me a passage? In any version of the Bible? No. The message is the same in all of them - peace and love.

Regarding the 2 billion Muslims: this is (roughly) 25% of the world's population. What percent of the world's terror attacks are caused by Muslims?

Why are gays and jews beaten up in Amsterdam? This is well documented. Why are there honor-killings, and other medieval and barbaric activities? Where does this equate in Western, non-Muslim countries?

90% of Muslim countries are secular: these are all dictatorships, staunchly supported by the imams and other fundamentalists. saying that Gaddafi's state is "secular" is like saying Saudi Arabia is a constitutional monarchy. The only legitimate democracy in the Middle East is Israel.

As far as discrimination, I work at an NGO managed and staffed largely by Copts, and they are NOT happy with their situation, and the discrimination that they are dealt with at the hands of the Muslims.

So your entire series of arguments don't stand up to the reality on the ground. Just because 2 billion people follow a belief system doesn't mean that it is legitimate or worthy of dignity.

By Johannes von Man | August 4, 2010 8:14 PM

Johannes,

Your answer is kind of late for me to even bother and you are a bit young to even have such a strong opinion. I can spot hatred, ignorance, fear, patronizing attitude and hidden agenda a mile away. Unless you and me debate the issue face to face, I am not going to waste my time on tit for tat useless argumentation. I can see now your aim for being in a Muslim Country, BTW. Stop trying to convert, patronize and demonize a people and their religion. This is also mentioned in the Quran by the way. If you want to talk about barbarity, I can name you a few Western ones but here is one, Spanish Inquisition.

By Saladin | August 11, 2010 2:00 PM

Same way of thinking and similar arguments you can find in 'Mein Kampf''. Only difference is in choosing false enemy selected to harass. Jews in Mein Kampf, and Muslims here.
Nothing strange, because, same politic tactic is designed in both cases. Nationalism, exclusion, and selecting a false enemy to harass.

By zenplus | August 19, 2010 11:04 PM

Same way of thinking and similar arguments you can find in 'Mein Kampf''. Only difference is in choosing false enemy selected to harass. Jews in Mein Kampf, and Jews and Christians in Koran.
Nothing strange, because, same politic tactic is designed in both cases. Nationalism, exclusion, and selecting a false enemy to harass.

By zenplus++ | August 30, 2010 1:56 PM

Wilders is a rookie,The poor fellow has lot to learn about politics. In his ignorance he does not realise that the more he talks negative about Islam the more inquisitive become the people,and the sale of the holy quran has sored to unimaginable levels.Thank you Gerrit,Allah bless you for the good work you are doing. TOI,TOI,TOI.
It had taken a decade for the Holy Quran to reach so many people.Thanks to The real "FITNA" Allah's word is now spread also by "THE UNBELIEVERS."
And so ALLAH says. "KUN FEYAAKUN"(happen and it happens)

By tutor | September 28, 2010 2:12 AM

The Prophet was described as being a mercy in the Quran due to the message he brought for humanity:

“And We have not sent you but as a mercy to all the worlds.” (Quran 21:107)

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

For rights of Women according to Islam http://www.islamfortoday.com/womens_rights_references.htm

By Khan | September 29, 2010 5:27 PM