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Romania wants action on PVV website

Thursday 09 February 2012

The Romanian ministry of foreign affairs wants the Dutch authorities to take action against a PVV website asking people to report problems caused by central and eastern Europeans.

The website 'violates European norms', is discriminatory and not in line with the European spirit, the ministry told DutchNews.nl in a statement. 'We have asked the Romanian embassy in The Hague to ask the Netherlands to take measures [against the site] because it violates European norms,' the ministry said.

The Polish embassy in the Netherlands has also called for action against the site, which asks people to report 'problems caused by central and eastern Europeans in terms of crime, alcoholism, drugs use, dumping household waste and prostitution'.

The site, launched on Wednesday, will encourage discrimination, an embassy spokesman told Nos television. The embasssy has written to PVV leader Geert Wilders urging him to take the site off line and has also asked the national ombudsman to state whether the website breaks Dutch law.

Bernard Wientjes, leader of the Dutch employers organisation VNO-NCW on Thursday called on the government to distance itself from the PVV campaign. The website is 'a form of demonisation', Wientjes told a news conference.

Dutch social affairs minister Henk Kamp has refused to condemn the initiative. He said on Wednesday it is up to individual parties to decide what they do. The prime minister has not commented.

PVV spokesman Ino van den Besselaar told the Telegraaf on Thursday the site had already received 14,000 complaints.

© DutchNews.nl


Readers' Comments

How would you distinguish between a native Dutch and an Eastern European immigrant? By asking them for their ID's? By the colour of their skin? What about problems caused by Dutch nationals? Do they matter less?

By grange35 | 9 February 2012 7:02 AM

What an utterly spineless response from Henk Kamp, a minister in the Dutch government. Too scared to stand up the PVV, too weak to stand up for basic values and decency. How is it that such a weak, pathetic little individual can be given a position of leadership and responsibility?

By Michael | 9 February 2012 9:18 AM

I agree. Wilders has intimidated too many people. The 2nd chamber should just not engage with him in 'debates' and the ministers should order the site to be taken down. Suppose a site proposed that Jews should not be admitted because they were "economic immigrants"? That happened in NL and other countries before WW2. What's the difference?

By Husserl | 9 February 2012 10:11 AM

14,000 "complaints"? Ugh. They are such liars. People have been spamming the site with blank complaints and nice experiences with Eastern Europeans.

By Robert | 9 February 2012 11:08 AM

I am amazed that this thing is still online and hasn't been taken down yet. It certainly would have been anywhere else. It is illegal. As in, against the law. As in, the ones who set it up should be prosecuted. I can understand the fact that the PVV exists (unfortunate, but a consequence of democracy), but I cannot understand the regular need the current cabinet has of fellating PVV regularly.

By Alice | 9 February 2012 11:25 AM

The site has already got 14000 complaints ..yeah against the PVV.What idiots do they take us for.Its common knowledge online that his hate site has been overlogged by people against his facist bully boys.

By jason buttle | 9 February 2012 11:30 AM

"Dutch social affairs minister Henk Kamp has refused to condemn the PVV’s campaign, saying it is up to individual parties to decide what they do. " - if one day they decide it is really not so bad to simply kill all the immigrants, will he then have a similar response?

By kar | 9 February 2012 11:36 AM

I'm not a PVV voter, but you could also perhaps look at it from this viewpoint:

Is the PVV perhaps not just making public what the masses gossip about all day long? I don't consider it racist in any manner. I have no problem with people living anywhere they want, so long as they live by the "when in Rome do what the Romans do" rule. Maybe the PVV could also consider capturing "positive" comments on the same group to balance their analysis.

By Maria | 9 February 2012 12:51 PM

@grange35 and @Michael Totally agree!

By Jet Landman | 9 February 2012 1:30 PM

I'm sure most of the 14,000 complaints are about the PVV and their stupid website. Notice that the PVV doesn't state that the complaints are about the 'Easterners.' Just that they got 14,000 of them.

It is especially obvious after you read the comments under the original article about the launching of the site. Most of the (so far) 84 commenters state that they've complained about the PVV and their stupidity.

By Bubba | 9 February 2012 1:35 PM

I think that what is doing now this PVV is going too far.Nobody explain clear what are the reasons (exactly)that they treat us like this.Nobody ask us to have the chance to defend ourselves.
I am very proud of my country and about my people .We are not criminals and ,most of all, we are not beg nothing.We only want to not be treats like criminals and to have the right to work ,as all European citezens have!! Shame for this !!

By Mariuca (Romanian citizen!) | 9 February 2012 2:14 PM

The government should be taking more action to stop this discrimintation. This should be a case for the European Courts and the United Nations Human Rights Committee about the Netherlands failing to protect other nationalities from discrimination.
I think Dutch Criminal Code does include defamatory or insulting statements against a population group based on nationality in the Equal Treatment Act (Algemene Wet Gelijke Behandeling), which was extended to include nationality in 1994.
Clearly, Wilders and the PVV are not going to stop by the government and citizens ignoring them, which seems to be the thinking by many. A "head-in-the-sand" approach has never worked with Wilders (or the PVV) since foreigner bashing started almost 10 years ago. Enough is enough!

By Quest | 9 February 2012 2:49 PM

How about launching a counter website for anyone who has experienced issues, problems or racist remarks while living here... How would the government and Henk Kemp react to this initiative??

By - | 9 February 2012 3:29 PM

Great to see, I am so proud of Wilders & the PVV, it's amazing how far a true leader can lead his voters.

Once again the Dutch are leading the way!

By Phil | 9 February 2012 3:34 PM

I've been thinking, and in order to make the reporting process to the site reasonably accurate it would be necessary to be able to clearly distinguish between native Dutch and Eastern European emigrants. Therefore, the next step would be to oblige all Eastern European emigrants to wear a yellow star...

By grange35 | 9 February 2012 4:09 PM

2 comments. 1@grange35 Registration of Eastern European immigrants (nb. Roma and Sinti) was suggested by one A'Dam politico recently. 2. This afternoon the National Ombudsman refused to consider this site, because his/her remit is to study complaints about the overheid, not parties (NRC online now). Well, PVV is not a party, but a 'movement' with one member, GW. Others are 'Friends of the PVV.' Also, PVV has seats in Parliament. So how can the Ombudsman refuse? All I see is spinelessness, intimidation, and quite possibly a desire by others, say Rutte, to increase state authoritarianism. I use 'authoritarianism' for precision; NL is not yet a Fascist state.

By Husserl | 9 February 2012 8:02 PM

Holland need new Ulrike Meinhof.

By Nikita | 9 February 2012 11:53 PM

I hope the PVV causes an international incident. The Dutch voters and citizens do seem to be able to do anything about them. I guess other nations will have to create some consequences for these misfits for Dutch society. I keep hearing over and over that 'only 15%' of the Dutch voted for them, yet Wilders very obviously dominates NL politics. It's very sad and pathetic to me.

By Bill | 10 February 2012 7:04 AM

Oh Henk Kemp, how very Pontius Pilate of you. Hopefully you will receive the same footnote in history as he did.

By Greg | 10 February 2012 7:52 AM

I reiterate that I do not believe the PVV to be racist. How does everyone feel about Australian rules to letting in immigrants? How easy is it to get into the USA via the green card system? Are the Australian's and America racist in their outlook? Come on, give the PVV a break. I really believe they are saying out loud what a lot of Dutch people are thinking and saying to each other but do not dare to make public. Perhaps a little nuance might put a stop to such reactions. Again, if the PVV were to capture the positive comments as well as the negative comments then I feel the analysis is more balanced.

By Maria | 10 February 2012 9:09 AM

Maria, you may 'reiterate' it until the cows come home but it will not change the truth. I advise you to actually read the countless comments here from all over the world substantiating what I am trying to tell you. Of course, maybe hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people are wrong and the very very few that still suport Wilders are right, but I seriously doubt it. Try and think about that please.

By Bill | 10 February 2012 10:31 AM

@Maria. I think it’s lame to compare Australian/US immigration rules to the Dutch government insulting and inciting hatred against a group of legal EU nationals. There is nothing wrong with debating immigration policy, but it should be done in a way that is respectful and humane. It should not be like a group of children tossing out insulting comments on the playground.

By Quest | 10 February 2012 11:01 AM

@Maria. Although there is no direct comparison to situations in other countries, which many seem always to throw things back on, a similar situation would be if the US democrats in congress launched a website insulting legal Peurto Ricans living in the US. Although the average “Henk and Ingrid” PVV supporter in Holland and “Joe Sixpack” in the US might enjoy this type of hate mongering, it would be immediate lawsuits from the ACLU. Holland has no equivalent to the ACLU, and other than ambassadors voicing their disgust, there is little the average “MOE-lander” can do about it. Hopefully they will have better luck in court, where this is likely to go if the PVV does not cease and desist.

By Quest | 10 February 2012 11:02 AM

@Maria PVV might not be racist, but it's explicitly xenophobic, as the site and the Gedoogaccord show. Besides inciting hatred of foreigners, the site's dangerous. Anyone can write down the name and address of a disliked person. Deaths can result. For this reason alone the thing should be shut down, as I've been assured it would be, if PVV were taken to court in the USA or UK. In Sweden (I live there) I could report anything similar to the police, who would investigate it asap.

By Husserl | 10 February 2012 12:47 PM

I think it is really the saddest thing to see Dutch people 'give in' to this way of thinking and seeing things. It seems to be a way of 'justifying' this disgraceful element in NL society. But there is no justification - this is just plain wrong. No discussion necessary for me.

By Bill | 10 February 2012 1:28 PM

Mariuca (Romanian citizen!) very unfortunate when bad apples from a country ruin the entire reputation for many people. Maybe Phil right, the Dutch are leading the way for others.

By gerad | 10 February 2012 1:53 PM

The latest news in today's Dutch language Volkskrant is that the European Commission has received lot and lots of complaints about Wilders and the site; and they are 'looking into the matter'. Hopefully an intenational reprimand is coming from the EC. This is first step; after that if he continues the Netherlands could face financial consequences. Unfortunately, I believe this is what is needed to make Wilders shut up and behave - consequences, serious economic consequences.

By Bill | 10 February 2012 3:42 PM

I'm a UK citizen, have lived here now since 2000 & have lost count of the times I was asked "Is there no work in your own country?"
My employer at that time was contacted by a Dutch agency to supply skilled labour because the Dutch youth do not want to work in construction.
Most foreigners here are doing work the Dutch don't want/ are incapable of doing!
Wait till the construction industry picks up again and there will be more foreigners coming to fill those vacancies.

By Donaugh | 10 February 2012 4:00 PM

It is so sad that in the 21stC such issues still exist, Sade sings "why can't we live together" and with such sincerity that when you listen to this it makes you stop and think......Why Can't We Live Together? It's time to put down the grudges and axes and all things anti and really make an effort to live together on this very small and delicate planet Earth, we have only one and we have to make it work. We are all at the end of the day ....... Humans and all related from origin so please let's make the effort, together we can make a difference!

By AndyT | 10 February 2012 4:56 PM

You want this extremist man to distroy all the diplomatic relations between european countries and Holland?! I am wondering why the police dont say exactly ,with numbers,how many romanians are criminals?! And how many are already in prison?!....If I saw a man on the street doing things against the law how i know if he is romanian,bulgarian or maybe dutch?!

By Mariuca (Romanian citizen!) | 10 February 2012 6:06 PM

@Bill . I agree fully. Have you any idea of the best EU address to mail to about this?

By Husserl | 10 February 2012 6:34 PM

To Maria:
Differentiate between the two types of immigration:...if you want to compare USA (or Australia) with the Netherlands, then consider thinking of the opportunity an US. citizen from Ohio state not able to work or live in NY State, or a citizen of Australia from Sydney not able to live/work/study in Melbourne.. because this the case with European Union citizens...and this is the aim of the European Union..the problem should be directed towards aliens who are not EU citizens...(the case you mention with USA and their green cards)...I think this is the problem of NL...it is more easier to enter,live, work, study and receive social benefits if you are non EU citizen than if you are Eastern European

By Vasil | 11 February 2012 11:36 PM

Husserl: sure no problem, here is the link to where you may file your complaint: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/your_rights/your_rights_forms_en.htm

By Bill | 13 February 2012 10:17 AM

I know few Romanians living in The Hague area and most of them are either highly educated or hard workers. All of them are respected and respectable. And they are also paying for the Dutch government and for one like Mr. Wilders. A part of his salary comes from Polish, Romanians, Bulgarians and other Eastern Europeans. Does he think of this?
@ Maria: Unfortunately, I think you are right. I think indeed that Mr. Wilders views are not his only. I think that some of the Dutch share the same opinions. I don't think that this webiste idea came over night; it must have come from his voters.

By Proud Romanian | 13 February 2012 12:10 PM

I am a PhD, highly skilled professional who came to Netherlands because people well trained like me were not to be found in the labour market in Netherlands at the time. What this Wilders does, and others who support him, is ruin the image I had about Netherlands as the most tolerant country in Europe. The fact that the Dutch PM does not react, worries me, and casts a thick shadow on all the Dutch politicians. Now, where I leave, I see Dutch people drinking on the street, doing drugs at the corner of buildings in downtown, walking their dogs on the grass next to the sign that forbids dogs in that place.

By Marius (Romanian) | 13 February 2012 8:43 PM

How is this possible? How can a site like this even exist?
I am a highly skilled Romanian - I work with internationals and quite a number of them are Dutch. Today I had a discussion with them (I didn't know about this article) and I was unpleasantly supprised that some of them support this initiative. This is the real worry - that they will have success with this stupidity in times of recession. On the other hand, I know Eastern Europeans who came here just for the benefits ... it feels bad to say that this initiative has a little true at its root. :(

By Florentina (Proud to be Romanian) | 16 February 2012 12:06 PM

Greet Wilders from PVV manifest despise against his own country and European citizens as his offensive site breaks this European treaty http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/treaties/dat/32007X1214/htm/C2007303EN.01000101.htm
, article 15

By Emil V. Toma | 18 February 2012 7:48 PM

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