Something is wrong in home education when fascist thinking is taking place into younger brains. The future for this country may be as dark as it was for Germany in the 1930s.

By zenplus | June 9, 2010 12:04 PM

Zenplus. because you do not agree with the poll does not automatically mean the dutch youth is 'fascist' Many of us in europe were not consulted about mass immigration and the multi-cultural mess that has resulted and to be quite honest it is not a great experiance living in urban muti-cultural environments especially when you are a native in the minority.

By Gary | June 9, 2010 2:40 PM

I agree with zenplus..a worrying trend..

Gary, does that mean future generations would fare better under the PVV? Feeling like a native in the minority must have been the exact feeling the Native Americans had once. Now, European countries and populations need to make up their minds. Enough of this we need cheap labour which is done by low skilled immigrants, but we do not want them to have families and live here. Nor, we need high skilled immigrants but we will always consider them outsiders and we want to force them to assimilate anyway.

By Saladin | June 9, 2010 5:45 PM

The biggest doesn't mean the winner. 30 seats from 150 is only 20%. It's far from the absolute majority. It's OK, the Dutch youth is not fascist.

By D.M. from Ukraine | June 9, 2010 8:52 PM

Its not about anti-islam, its about preserving the liberal identity of the Netherlands. Islam has no tolerance for multiculturalism, liberalism or freedom of religion. To simply allow them to immigrate with abandon will destroy the Netherlands as a nation and replace its identity with a foreign one.

If you want to understand how it works, simply look at Iran. Iran's Persian identity is suppressed and has been replaced with an islamic/arab culture. In less than 30 years it has regressed 400 years socially back to a cultural level not seen since the pre-renaissance of europe.

For those who claim its fascist, try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding that a christian church be built there, or try and get permission to hand out bibles and sell pork products. Islamic nations lock down their countries and do not permit western influence, why should the west? Tolerance must work both ways, and thats the issue at hand. The Dutch are a pragmatic people.

By Rick | June 9, 2010 9:57 PM

I totally agree with Rick.

I think the votes of 1.5 MILLION DUTCH people should be heard. There is no reason that this society should turn its back on its own culture in order to appease others that do not tolerate ours.

And if they don't like it, well, in my opinion they should leave. Yes we must all be tolerant, but that does not mean we have to give in to every demand. That is not the meaning of tolerance.

And other talk about low skilled jobs? Try walking into the unemployment benefit centers in this country and see what the majority there is.

By B | June 10, 2010 8:18 AM

@Rick - well said! Being a foreigner myself I do not get how Geert Wilders a dutchman has to apologise for standing up for his OWN culture! He has more right to fight for the ideals that built the Netherlands than immigrants do to complain! I have lived in a muslim country for 2 years and the rights muslims have in Europe FAR outweigh the rights I had to be western there! Great news how well the PVV did! Ecstatic!

By Juan | June 10, 2010 8:45 AM

Its is not true Rick.

Look at Turkey. You can find church, synagogue, and a mosque in the same street. You can get bible anywhere, even some people give them away for free in the streets and it is allowed. You can also drink alcohol, or eat pork or bacon.

By Emre | June 10, 2010 8:55 AM

Rick & Juan,

You always seem to pick the worse case scenario to represent Muslim Countries then go on generalizing like there is no tomorrow..Let me give you a few examples...Turkey, Morrocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, are these countries perfect, of course not, are European countries perfect, of course not.....you pick Saudi Arabia and Iran to represent Muslim countries as if they are the leading example! It shows me how short sighted people can be...it is like me saying Bible belt represents the views of all of America from a religious perspective!!

Lets not go down that path of Multiculturalism, Freedom of religion and liberalism...the day Western countries decided to conquer Islamic/Arab ones, is the day the irreversible trend of migration started...you reap what you sow remember..

Keep going down the path of oblivion and soon enough, you will have a serious clash of religion and civilizations. So instead of saying Islam is the problem and burying your heads in the sand and alienating Muslims, try to have a dialog instead...it is the only way forward..

By Saladin | June 10, 2010 9:18 AM

Hi Emre,
Can I just say that your reference to Turkey is a none starter.
Turkey is a secular country, despite the fact that the majority of it's citizens are Muslims.
They also want to join the European Union, despite the fact that their only legitimate claim is the city of Istanbul. which is located on the European side of the Bosphorus.
I also believe that they members of NATO.(very westernised then)
Cheers
Leo

By Roy Leon | June 10, 2010 9:22 AM

Rick- The liberal identity of the Netherlands is well dead. Maybe 20 years ago. But its all gone now. People like JP Balkey and Job Cohen are hurting their beloved country by trying to make it into something it isnt. The funny thing is in the last 10-15 years Dutch culture has been irreparable damaged not by immigrants but by the politicians who claim to be trying to maintain Dutch Culture.

Why have the politicians been changing their own culture and blaming the immigrants?

I believe it is the same as in England. The Dutch and the English spent so long conquering the world they never developed their own culture to be secure with. So now when you have immigrants from all over the world moving here and bringing their cultures and traditions it makes the Dutch all green eyed with envy.

Its a pity. And im not looking forward to living in right wing Netherlands.

By langer | June 10, 2010 9:57 AM

Emre,
Turkey is a secular democracy and therefore not officially an Islamic country which makes your point moot. Apply your logic to officially Islamic nations then you will admit the point above is valid (however Turkey does show that in many areas a more liberal view which displays that to be Muslim is not to be intolerant of all non-Islamic practice). Perhaps it can be considered a de Facto Muslim country since Islam is the major religion but in no legal sense is it.
However what is clear is that there is a growing swell of people across Europe who, whether simply perceived or real, feel that their own cultural identity is neither recognised nor valued. Liberal apologists in the media have for many years dominated this cultural debate denigrated indiginous culture (understandably in many ways with the memory of WW2 so close) but conversely often provided a platform for only the most extremist views within the immigrant communities of Europe. This dicotomy has been a major failing of the presentation of immigration and hindered the integration of these communities as the numbers have increased.
However immigrant communities must also recognise their own failings. Living in any country affords you certain rights but also responsibilities, too often critism of cultural practices i.e. polygamy/arranged marriage are perceived as racist rather than philosophical differences to be debated. This leads to more anti immigrant sentiment and the cycle will continue unless both communities can respect each other. This actually only comes through collective acceptance and adoption of a countries cultural norms. European Nations were borne out of wars but only became stable through this collective acceptance, if communties within a nation can not co-exist within these norms then respect for nation state is lost. Geert Wilders for all his misplaced vitriol towards Islam does have this very issue at the core of his philosophy, to deny it is to perpetuate further the dislocation between national governance and it's people.

By Tom | June 10, 2010 10:27 AM

People seem to conveniently forget that more Dutch people voted AGAINST Wilders than FOR him. All they ALL against their own culture? Should they ALL leave?

By CW | June 10, 2010 10:58 AM

Idonesia is the largest Muslim nation in the world. They also have a large Christian population, large western tourist industry, selling drink & food of all variety.

Just because it does not fit into the fear model is not a reason to ignore the fact that 99% of Muslims are no different from me and you.

By c | June 10, 2010 11:13 AM

@Rick, this is so wrong "Islam has no tolerance for multiculturalism, liberalism or freedom of religion.", please if you want to judge or make accusations, please read first, read like you are reading other books, don't worry it is not a magic book which will turn you in and remove all your liberal identity in a moment. tolerance is very important in Islam. If math book says 2+2=4 and if some math students apply 2+2=5, doesn't make math wrong. Islam is powerful and sensible if you are into religion, and it is pity that silence of true believers let it slip in not good hands sometimes. Reading is also for your advantage, if you see them wrong in some discussion, you can just beat them in their own book. ;)

for rest you are right, I already explained above. I like democracy or mostly I respect democracy, even* i was raised in muslim family. The main issue is I don't want Netherlands to become like the countries you refered in your message in means of rights. If happens so, then maybe they had also passed through same phases.

even* even, is for islamphobics without any will to know what really is, please don't get me wrong.

By sec | June 10, 2010 11:34 AM

I am foreigner and an atheist, so which catagory to i belong to. Why not have a election on religion.

By susie | June 10, 2010 11:34 AM

West has always support the Islamic extremist in past like Taliban of Afghanistan and Iran's militant and Arabic and Pakistani dictators.. I am also a Muslim and I have experience that how much West has polluted our politics with its strong influence and now the situation is so worse that we have to take refuge as a modrate people...
What if Native Canadian and American and Australian stand up say the same think as Wilder is said?

By Meh | June 10, 2010 11:56 AM

It is about how the policies will be. I am neither an Islam nor a Christian, I have lived in almost 8 countries in the world across regions and travelled like a dutch. The only question is when they make policies how fairly they will treat people from different backgrounds. It is not a concern for me as I move out if it hurts my basic belief. I like Netherlands as it is one of the best countries till now in Europe and sometimes even compared to the States, so it is not wise to compare this country to Iran or Saudi as Holland is more advanced both in terms of maturity and culture . It is good to protect your own people but when it gets too isolated in beliefs and Ideologies you become a small nation.

The world is Flat and quiet Global.If policies makes the country isolated tough luck for the country because the world is a big place to live in.

However it is too early to discount Wilders we should give him a chance and see how he formulates his policies. Don't forget policitics is a dirty game I have seen it different parts they all make different stories and change when they come to power !

By Kumar | June 10, 2010 12:48 PM

Emre, Turkey is certainly not the best example for freedom of religion. Even though it is a secular country by law, there are continued discriminations of the Christian minority (see any human rights organisation's reports) and people can get killed by extremists as missionaries for "giving away bibles for free". You can hadly blame people for feeling uncomfortable when those things still happen all over the islamic world, even in secular Turkey.

The PVV just gets the votes because the other parties don't discuss those things and leave them to the far right to exploit.

The same is probably true for the Pirate Party, who have not much of a program except data security and privacy, another often overlooked topic that increasingly concerns people.

By Atheist Alien | June 10, 2010 12:57 PM

@ Saladin
You state "you reap what you sow" in reference to Muslim migration to the West and I assume,based upon your avatar name, you are referring to the Crusades and it's specific importance to Middle Eastern History? And this being followed by colonisation? But the success of Europe in this era is directly linked to the failure of the antiquated Ottoman power structure (an Empire that was already deeply ingrained in Europe, especially the eastern bloc and the Mediterranean) which certain ruthless Europeans/countries exploited. Using arguments that do not have any relevance to your average voter does not open up the debate but is simply an attempt to absolve any responsibility for the tension - using 1000 year old arguments is not helpful and reduces deabat to a blame game with no practical purpose. All countries have been subject to whims of conflicting elites for whom their own personal motives hold sway and in this sphere of influence there are no innocents on either side.

In general immigration is primarily driven by economic motives (I am not talking about political asylum which of course is very different). However should one as an individual make such a choice (and I admit the choice can often be stark i.e. feeding your family or not) one must also accept new cultural norms of the accepting country. This is not to say that one must deny one's cultural heritage and practices but the classic sociological trend of almost all immigrant communities is to protect these cultural values to the point of closing off their communities to non-ethnics and creating micro communities of their home country with one paradox, that they are often both far more orthodox and conservative in their outlook than the communities they migrated from. This cultural protectionism also creates tension which is obviously exacerbated by inherent racism (I would venture to say at least 20% of all the people I have ever met are racist and I include nationalities and all creeds in this - again this is another issue that often gets overlooked - the perception that only white people are racist) and cultural ignorance (which also works both ways). Apocolyptic warnings that cultural protectionism is the first steps towards Facism resurfacing in Europe is head in the sand politics that will not defuse this moral debate since the demand for cultural protectionism exists in both communities.

By Tom | June 10, 2010 2:02 PM

I just wonder western people can criticize socialism or communism openly, but dare not to fire at islamism. I can't see the difference between them. Just look at iran's official site of its national radio, I found the words used there are similiar to those during China's culture revolution. Iran even has a crime of anti-god, like in China insulting Mao Ze Dong's picture as anti-revolution. And yes, Iran did use revolution in their political life. Iran is just an good example of what a foundamental islam country would be. And to make Iran like China more is that its people does not pro their government, just as China. the rigid ideology will never win its people. another fact is if muslim people are majority in a country, they will change it into a islam country, which means islamic law would apply. That even happen in malaysia that have two sets of law system. Chinese and Indian are treated prejudicially there by law. How about that happen in Dutch, if Dutch pass a law that make muslim in unfavor position? remember malaysia is a very moderate islam country. But the so-called western liberals still ignore the fact. They never have the courage to criticize islam, instead, they have great interest in criticizing america, because they know they won't be killed by cutting throat by criticizing america, on the other hand, that could gain their reputation safely of defing a value. But just as a Chinese idiom said: people's eyes are bright. Dutch people made a small step. Gone those coward and blinded politicians.

By panda | June 11, 2010 7:57 AM

Tom, my comments were not aimed at pointing the finger nor attributing blame, they were meant to explain that we live in a complex demographic world which soon enough will have no room for nationalism nor religious fervor.

However, every action has a re-action and hence my point. To the contrary, I relish a constructive debate, but I will not get one with Wilders because his mind is already made up. When will this stop? when Muslims as abused, threatened and deported physically? You may say, this will not happen in Europe and I would disagree with you completely. Criticizing a topic without involving experts is worthless and this eactly what Wilders and his bandwagon is doing. Even if you deported all Muslims from the NL today..the situation will not change.

We will all be called international residents one day.
When people cling on to a culture and yet at the same time want to make a quick buck by exploiting immigrants, you are doomed. I agree racism exists everywhere and will exist everywhere until the day we die. However, when people in power start being racist is the day everyone needs to take note. Freedom of speech is one thing, denigrating a whole religion and community, is another. Ask yourself this question, why is it everytime, a Moroccan commits a crime, it is referred to in the Media as a group but when a Dutch native does it, it is an individual! we need to move on from this hearsay culture based on scare tactics.

By Saladin | June 11, 2010 1:04 PM

Glad the majority of their votes came from people about age 60.

But listen to this..
I was reading about threir plans and this comes literally from their Election-programm (don't know if it is called the same in English)
"Etnical registration"
"Preventative frisking of the entire country"
"No king in the cabinet"
"Less people in the cabinet"
"No people with double identities in the cabinet"
"The fight against the Islam should be the main goal of our foreing policy"
"Every school and every gouvernment building should have the Dutch flag hanging outside"
"Re-education camp"(I don't know if this is the right word, but you got those camps in North-Korea.....)
"No more committee on equal treatment"

Doesn't this remind you of something?

By Charissa | June 11, 2010 4:07 PM

It reminds me of the famous Duth word: Apartheid!

By Jon Walker | June 28, 2010 10:26 AM