What about non-EU nationals?
Government shouldn't provide free integration course to them as well??

By sam | July 1, 2009 8:46 AM

As an EU immigrant to the NL, I'm not sure I would support the idea of *compulsory* inburgeringscursus for EU nationals. I would certainly be in favor of free and highly recommended and advertised inburgeringscursus, but making them compulsory sounds strange to me. What if I don't attend them? Do I then lose my right to be in the NL? How does this go along with the EU free movement laws?

By José Pedro Magalhães | July 1, 2009 8:47 AM

Yes,one can easily understand why many native Dutch want to hold on to their language and culture as long as possible. However, I doubt if this is a realistic possibility. The whole idea underlying the original Treaty of Rome established in 1957 and signed then by the EU's 6 founding nations, including the Netherlands, was to create freedom of movement of not only goods, capital, and services, but also of memberstate peoples.
So now that it is now possible for many EU citizens to move freely and work in one country or another, comes the outcry that those who come must be first compelled to also learn the native tongue. Such training requires years of study and would need to be repeated each time EU citizens cross into another language culture that they are not familiar.
This is a mixed-message at best. On the one hand it says that these new residents are wanted to do the work that many natives are not willing to perform, but on the other these new emigrants must study to do a cultural makeover to be accepted.
Of course, that's hypocrisy and unrealistic if one is to expect that EU wide structural unemployment be alleviated through the obstacle-free movement of the total EU workforce.
Government and private funds would be better invested in a more equitable manner by improving the language skills of a common second language for all. At this time there appears to be only one language available that can make the claim of bearing a truly international status--English.

By HistoryTechDoc | July 1, 2009 8:55 AM

I completely agree with what HistoryTechDoc..

By Sam | July 1, 2009 9:20 AM

I am a British citizen living in The Netherlands and am choosing to take inburgering lessons as I feel that, in order to integrate properly into Dutch society, one must be able to speak the language. I think that many people coming from within the EU to live in Holland do not realise that they are entitled to this course, as they believe that it is only available for those outside of the EU.

By Helena | July 1, 2009 9:25 AM

I find odd how the whole fuzz about integration is limited to Learning Dutch! I consider the language a tool (or a barrier) for integration not the end!!

Finally, more than impose a course (we are talking about education here) I would consider some positive action...free courses...afterall we pay so much taxes!!

By LP | July 1, 2009 9:43 AM

Here we go again...always the stick, never the carrot...

By CW | July 1, 2009 10:07 AM

Speaking Dutch does not automatically mean we foreigners will be integrated in to Dutch society. The fact is that the Dutch are racist to the core and will not allow any outsiders to integrate in to their society. They don't object to us paying into their tax system though.

By Deep Throat | July 1, 2009 10:10 AM

i am a EU citizen living here since 3 years, paying taxes, voted for the EU parlement election, am learning dutch as I can, english the rest of the time. I am still waiting for a dutch person to offer me a drink (which is normal behavior in any other EU country - including poland) but it has not happened yet. Until that day arrives, I will stick to my idea that the dutch are associal and not opened to the outside world.

By stef | July 1, 2009 12:41 PM

Well , this makes me laugh to be honest. I am currently living and working in holland and brought my wife and child to live here.
I have put my child into a dutch school as i feel she would benefit more.
I applied to go this this inburgering course and also asked for my wife. We got an invite to go to the local government office to be "interviewed" by someone to see if we were suitable to go on the course.
I am on a rolling contract here in holland, i work for a british company subcontracted to a dutch one and the contract renews yearly.
I was told that because i cant guarantee i will be here for 1 1/2 years from the start date(even though ive been here 1 1/2 years already) - that i cant go on the course.
They also wanted me to pay 300 euros for myself and 300 for my wife to go on the course and if we missed any lessons or had to leave early we would be charged the full cost of the course(i think he said 5000 euros or something)

If i had came here illegally i could go straight onto the course though i was told by colleagues at work(though i take that with a pinch of salt)

So - i ask you this? - why should i bother to go out of my way further to learn dutch when they wont let me attend the course????????!!!!!!

Another example of hypocracy from the dutch.

Feel free to email me if you have any ideas, ive simply given up and im trying to learn with my daughter now which is very hard

By stephen | July 1, 2009 1:54 PM

I agree with stef! I have come here 5 years ago, I did my Master's here which was (as all Master Programs in Dutch University) obligatory in English ONLY, I have since then found work, in an American company, because the Dutch do not hire anyone who doesn't speak their language... no matter if the vast majority speaks excellent English.
The Dutch as a language is to m a funny one, and I wouldn't mind learning it... that is IF somebody wants to HELP me learn it...not punish me if I chose not to.
I was actually gonig to pay for the courses, until I saw those disgraceful advertisements on TV half a year ago... we all remember... different bunch of people speaking in Dutch and then a message in Dutch saying in this land we speak Dutch and a website... I logged in to the website happy that maybe finally I can find out how I can learn the language only to find out that the entire site was ONLY in Dutch! HEllo!!!!! I WANT to learn the language... I dont yet speak it! And on top of that??? A message finally in English: "If you can't read in Dutch ask one of your friends who do, to translate this website for you!!!!!"
I mean what on earth is that?!?!?!

It is this exact attitude that makes foreigners not want to learn the language and it is a problem with the Dutch people, NOT with the rest of us living here.

Integration comes from first accepting the different people who are next to you and helping them out.

Unfortunately the bitter truth is the Dutch dont accept... they just tolerate.

So... tolerate this... I aint learning your language until you change your attitudes!

By Alex | July 1, 2009 2:19 PM

"Ernie Brandts...is to join top Iranian club Rah Ahan," from Dutch News. I wonder if the ayotollahs will tolerate 'good old Ernie' not speaking fluent Persian?

By Michael Dawkes | July 1, 2009 3:52 PM

People can not be forced to integrate. Integration is not a course, it is a process of interaction. Instead of constantly "forcing" foreigners to "itegrate", and speaking about it in, essentuially, a hostile and intimidating manner, it would be more efficient and more appreciated if various possibities were developed for people to learn Dutch and to get to know the Dutch, fitting their life pattern and their wallet. People will learn at their own expense if motivated and when good, flexible opportunites are available. A sincere welcoming attitute is the first step to integrating, forced integration is not.

By j.b. | July 1, 2009 3:53 PM

Integration comes at a price and I'm not just talking about money but time, effort, dedication, sacrifice...

People need to do this by choice and a compulsory course does not motivate one to integrate but to resent their obligation.

Subsidise language courses that includes integration education. This is a step that helps and show a welcoming attitude.

By Gordon | July 1, 2009 6:03 PM

As I was told by Dutch, the moment you turn from tourist or temp into stayer, they are not welcoming you here anymore. That means - if you start integrating - learning language, trying to settle down etc, they see that you want to stay forever, and most likelly bring their values down and exploit their welfare's benefits. But the problem is that Dutch are so used to all Asian/Turkish/Moroccan ultra low skilled labor and huge family inflow, that they stop seeing that having other Europeans here, most of them educated, having more or less similar cultural background is much more beneficial for the Netherlands. Original Dutch are not reproducing at the rate newcomers do, so it's going to look odd in some 20 years or so.

another thing - "Schools are being forced to use precious funds to pay for extra teachers?" They recently reported excess of 2 bn Eur in the accounts not used, not budgeted to spend and just sitting there. So instead of using the money for teaching people language and everything, they complain and nag on polish. (though those folks can be anoying also sometimes).

By Jimbo | July 2, 2009 8:23 AM

It bothers me greatly when i see this carping and bitching - dutch language and culture are freely available on the internet. You just need to search for it.
Start with IBG - Inburgeling
Then book mark this sites:
http://inburgeren.eigenstart.nl/
http://www.etv.nl
http://www.dutchgrammar.com/
Utilise your local library
Lgg in to the local omoroep websites: they have archived very good language training materials and finally when you have covered the basics.
Ask you employer to send you here:

Regina Coeli in Vught for a two week course - remember you can also get a tax refund for training costs.
Research the inburgeling process before you engage the city government for subsidies. it can complicate your naturisatie process down the road.

Finally I used to have the attitude most are exhibiting here until I lived in Germany and tried to learn the language. Dutch people are not racist – they just don’t care – but if they see you struggling to learn their language they appreciate and are willing to help.
If you know English and can speak well – therein lays the pitfall. Dutch people are eager to practice their English and will not butt an eye-lid when they provide information in English to anyone.
However to really live here and participate in the society you need language and cultural understanding to a level equivalent to high school diploma. It is a rule based society where every little thing comes with complications and hidden alternatives you can never imagine.
The core of whatever regulation or policy choice you will face is never rendered into “whatever [put you rule here] for dummies”.
Worse yet Dutch people do not understand this rules all to well – you are on your own- or pay a professional for hundred of dollars per hour.
So why not give it a chance?
It is English really – albeit twisted with a logic that fits a rule based society and with a strange accent :)

By Bill Uimantu | July 3, 2009 10:17 AM

Thanks Bill for the websites and the information.

By Gordon | July 4, 2009 3:35 PM