Where is all this outrage for foreigners who have to renounce their nationalities to obtain Dutch citizenship?

By not good for the goose | November 1, 2011 9:31 AM

God forbid that Maxima, our beloved National Treasure, spends too much time abroad, putting her daughters at risk of becoming ex-Dutch Nationals.

By jaycee | November 1, 2011 10:23 AM

Donner doesn't get it, does he? He won't encourage "loyalty"; he'll just encourage more foreign nationals with permanent residence permits. Is that what he wants?

It's a flag, Donner; stop wearing it as a blindfold.

By CW | November 1, 2011 11:11 AM

Soon the only people who will choose to take on the Dutch Nationality will be those from countries that refuse to allow Holland to force their citizens to renounce their citizenship and who thus receive special treatment and can avoid having to follow the draconian, isolationist, xenophobic, retrograde Dutch law. The numbers during the last years indeed show that those from Morocco, Turkey, Russia, etc. are in a majority of new applicants. Meanwhile, successful entrepreneurs and professionals from Holland, the US and other advanced countries are leaving the Netherlands in disgust with a feeling of "good riddance" due to "stank voor dank" after years of building its economy and boosting its culture.

By Mike | November 1, 2011 12:00 PM

Dual nationality has nothing to do with loyalty. These new measures are designed to stop people from spending their income outside NL, very transparent!
More control & less freedom, just more stress & BS!

By The visitor | November 1, 2011 1:33 PM

What these right wing "rocket scientists" don't seem to understand is that if you FORCE people to choose ONE nationality, then you will only get the people who are desparate and they are probably not the citizens you want. All the intelligent working people will go elsewhere and all the "welfare immigrants" will arrive to take their place! EU countires are NOT addressing the problem; Easy welfare states attract welfare immigrants. If you want hard working middle class immigrants to boost your economy, rather than leach off it, then you need to lower the barriers to such people and tighten access to public welfare... rather than pander to right wing populism which will isolate you from economic growth. What kind of government puts a gun to the head of it's own people and says
"CHOOSE!" ???

By harlow | November 1, 2011 2:04 PM

With all due respect, entrepreneurs and those from so-called "advanced" countries are not necessarily better people or more deserving of dual citizenship.

Making money is no measure of the quality of one's character. Nobody should have to prove loyality to a country by cutting off ties to your past and family. Being law-abiding, and contributing to the well-being of one's society through taxes, hard work, or good deeds is prove enough.

Please stop pitting one group of foreigners against another.

By CW | November 1, 2011 2:08 PM

@ CW: I also have never understood why the minority government pretends to believe that a foreign national, such as an American, living and working in the Netherlands on a permanent residence permit, is somehow seen to be MORE "loyal" to the Netherlands than someone who has taken the big step to really commit and apply for and accept Dutch citizenship with all its obligations (but who wishes to still retain his or her US passport). It boggles the mind.

By Mike | November 1, 2011 2:30 PM

What is it about people who think that if you're born in a poor country, you're automatically inferior and deserve nothing??? harlow, no one is more worthy just because of the luck of birth!! These are not game pieces to be shuffled around, these are people like you and me! And just because they are from poor countries does not mean they aren't hard working!

I might add that most of these people are here for FAMILY. Or are poor people not deserving of that either?

And I can't get welfare here, and my son can't move here because of immigration laws so stop perpetuating silly myths about open doors . YOU are pandering to right-wing populism.

By CW | November 1, 2011 5:01 PM

I live, and have lived for years, in Canada but I am still a citizen of the Netherlands, by birth, and I am not a Canadian citizen. I have not applied for Canadian citizenship because that would result in my loosing my Dutch citizenship,which is VERY UNFAIR AND PETTY. As far as I know it was always like that so, what would be different about the new legislation?

By Paul.in.Canada | November 1, 2011 5:50 PM

If the Dutch government is going to restrict dual nationality then they should do it across the board, no exceptions. Which means, everyone, not just those living abroad,but those holding two nationalities and living here in the Netherlands... everyone should be forced to choose one nationality. Fair is fair.

By Quince | November 1, 2011 6:00 PM

@CW: Yes, it is unfair to treat one group of foreigners differently to the other. However, this is exactly what the minority government is doing. Under the current and proposed laws, Dutch "autochtonen" and immigrants from a majority of countries around the world are treated with distrust and demanded to make the ultimate sacrifice of cutting ties with their home country (e.g. only being allowed in the future to visit their family for a maximum of 90 days, or being denied a visa at all) while a number of nationalities -- coincidentally exactly the nationalities that the PVV wants to exclude -- are allowed to keep their other passports and are therefore about the only ones actually applying for citizenship.

By Mike | November 1, 2011 6:11 PM

Mike: 'advanced countries like the US'!! Haha what a joke, the US is heading to 3rd world status, streets full of beggars, no health system if you can't pay for it, occupied streets full of protesters, the end is nigh indeed!

By Josh | November 1, 2011 6:42 PM

Mike: 'advanced countries like the US'!! Haha what a joke, the US is heading to 3rd world status, streets full of beggars, no health system if you can't pay for it, occupied streets full of protesters, the end is nigh indeed!

By Josh | November 1, 2011 6:43 PM

Want to watch immigration law failure in action? Come to Texas.

By The Cat Lady | November 1, 2011 7:30 PM

@ Josh: Indeed! The US is could be an enormous source of highly educated, hard working citizens seeking to jump from their sinking ship and work to pay for the benefits of millions of idle Dutch collecting disability, unemployment, welfare and pensioen. People who have a work ethic, are experienced and are willing to work hard and not call in sick "stress" for two years at a time. On the other hand, there are much more Dutch abandoning the Dutch ship as a percentage of the population than Americans leaving their country. The US is still a magnet for immigrants. Perhaps because they are not called "allochtonen" and treated as 2nd class apartheid citizens for 3+ generations like in NL.

By Mike | November 1, 2011 7:39 PM

@Mike, this is how fair the US is to it's citizens of different color:
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/?p=8618
Land of the free.

By Tim | November 1, 2011 8:08 PM

It would appear that the politicians here have a more punitive and xenophobic agenda at hand than is being expressed publicly.I have dual nationality and travel to the Netherlands every year or every second year.I spend at least 2 to 3 months in the country and spend thousands of Euros in the country during that time.As I live in New Zealand I cost the Netherlands nothing to maintain me as a citizen.Guess what I will do when and if this dual nationality is lost...? I will no longer spend my time or my cash in the Netherlands but will do so elsewhere.A good deal for the country..?

By Mario | November 1, 2011 8:14 PM

@Tim: Perhaps you should look at the CBS statistics on the discriminated position of those of colour in the Netherlands. Or, simply enter any company board room or Parliament and see for yourself!

Yes, it is easy for just about anybody to receive public benefits in the Netherlands and thereby avoid the kind of dismal poverty of the US, but discrimination for real careers due to age, gender and race is the norm in oudejongenskrentenbrood Holland, which is more of a private gentlemen's club than a real country.

By Mike | November 1, 2011 8:50 PM

The government's message is clear:
1. Foreigners must contribute to the Dutch economy. Otherwise they will be expelled.
2. The Dutch nationals living abroad should be encouraged to contribute to the Dutch economy by restricting their ability to do otherwise.

To be consistent though, there is one more solution for them to consider:
3. The Dutch nationals who are not contributing to the Dutch economy should be expelled.

By Foreigner | November 1, 2011 8:58 PM

does this apply to 'friso' or whatever he is called. you know queen beatrix's son. after all he lives in london as far as i know. naturalised cockney !

By OWL | November 1, 2011 9:16 PM

Well, that's rich. But it's only logical that if foreigners aren't to keep their nationality, Dutch duals should be un-Dutched too. Anyway, how do they think they will enforce this? Morocco's nationality is a big deal for example, hard to obtain, and next to impossible to get rid of. You can't renounce it, it can only be stripped if convicted for treason. It's basically not up to the Dutch to decide on another country's nationality.

By Ussef | November 1, 2011 9:33 PM

So, Mike, then maybe you can explain why it is that mainly blacks and hispanics have to suffer in the US. Because if there were no racism, poverty would be spread over the entire population, regardless their color.

By the way, 14 members of Tweede Kamer are from an ethnic minority.
And this is also quite revealing:
"Only 11 black executives have ever made it to the Chairman or CEO position of a "Fortune 500" listed company. Of these 11 executives, only 6 remained as of April 1, 2011."
http://www.blackentrepreneurprofile.com/fortune-500-ceos/

By Tim | November 1, 2011 10:16 PM

Don't forget folks that the 19% against dual nationality only have one nationality, so they don't count because they have no conception of that status!
Last time I was loyal to a country was when I was a British soldier back in the 70's.

The opposition should have legal representation on such an important issue concerning dual status!!!

As a civilian I am loyal only to my partner, daughter, family & friends.

I am an ex pat which means literally EX PAT, everywhere & for the rest of my life.

By The visitor | November 1, 2011 11:55 PM

@ Quince: yes, you're right, just like Mauro Manuel, no exceptions...(Glad I was not around during WW2, get my point?

By The visitor | November 2, 2011 12:09 AM

@Tim: This is the DutchNews site not the USNews site. If you read Dutch, which hopefully you do if you wish to live in Holland, check out today's Volkskrant: 3/4 of employment agencies discriminate actively against Moroccans, Turks and Surinamers. http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/5273/Werk/article/detail/3009124/2011/11/02/Driekwart-uitzendbureaus-schuldig-aan-discriminatie.dhtml

It is no accident that the only Dutch word known universally around the world is "apartheid". There is less poverty in NL than US because everyone legally here is thrown a Calvinistic bone of predestination benefits to shut up and know their place, not because there is less discrimination.

By Mike | November 2, 2011 6:58 AM

As a youngster I always thought that a nationality was a BIRTHRIGHT.However
about 55 years ago I stopped being a Dutchman and I became a "British subject" still speaking Dutch to the family "AT HOME"
Wow, three of my daughters in Law hold
dual pasports.One has three of them..... I keep looking at BVN with amazement.17 year olds dragged away from his step parents.Banking disasters.A country that has lost its mind.

By OpaEddie | November 2, 2011 9:04 AM

To me, this is a relatively unimportant issue. I already have so much to be grateful for, I am so lucky. what does it really matter if I cannot hold 2 passports, really?

By Bill | November 2, 2011 10:40 AM

One of the reasons for poverty among minorities in the US is because most minorities do not tend to their children's education as much as white American's. It is a sad statistic, but true. And I am not saying all minorities are this way. I am saying "most". I feel it may be the same here in The Netherlands. Plus there is so much more social hand-outs here, but there is also that in the US. It seems to me that people on government welfare don't seem to care much about furthering themselves and getting away from government hand-outs as these make their life so much more easier and it's free!

By Pam | November 2, 2011 1:29 PM

Everyone that has taken up Dutch nationality here in NL as a second nationality has received one A4 document from the government via the ministry of immigration.
It clearly states: > By confiscating your Dutch citizenship, would be to go against a legal document. In my case (1997), it clearly states that I am allowed to keep my British nationality.

This new guv motion will be lots of meat & gravy for a solicitor, food for thought?

By The visitor | November 2, 2011 2:01 PM

When someone makes a decision, wait a clear benefit. Unless you are an stupid person.

What are the benefits for our country, on this new measure from our wisdom PM? Can anyone realize the benefits, in terms of wealth, income, welfare, or GDP growth?
I think they'll be the same as those of a referendum on minarets.

By zenplus | November 2, 2011 3:51 PM

There sure is a lot of belly aching going on. If you don't like it in the Netherlands move! Here, in the lower mainland of British Columbia (vancouver area) most of the politicians are either East Indian or Chinese. I personally would like to retain my dual citizenship.

By Erik Gruter | November 3, 2011 4:40 AM

IF YOU CHOOSE DUAL CITIZENSHIP THAT IS YOUR RIGHT IN A FREE WORLD. But you should not be a politition in any country and you should not be allowed to vote in any country.

By Paul Schaar | November 4, 2011 11:54 PM

True America seems to be on It's way to A Third world country. We in Europe shouldn't judge USA so harshly when our own system keeps racking up the price of health insurance every year for the sake of profit. We in Europe our becoming more and more like USA by greed before the people. I give The citizens of USA who are taking to the streets against wall street greed à lot of credit and respect! In Europe too the rich are getting richer and poor poorer. It is à matter of time when we in Europe end up in world war 3 with our populistic politicians who can't stop provoking bigger countries by their big mouths.

By SandraV | November 6, 2011 7:16 AM

@ Paul: But presumably it is OK to have a double passport and be able to vote and to be the head of state or the wife of the new King (with a political role in forming new governments after votes).

Under the current and proposed rules for double passport, most immigrants to the Netherlands from Western countries will not be allowed to vote in National elections. Nor will any Dutch who emigrate to, say, Canada.

However, non-western immigrants from Morocco, Turkey, Russian and a number of other countries will be able to keep their other passport and vote.

Everything the PVV touches turns out to work out exactly against the interests of those they claim to be representing.

By Mike | November 6, 2011 1:58 PM

Sandra V: what can I say? I agree completely with your comment! thanks. It's about time Europeans saw the US realistically; its not paradise where everyone is wealthy and happy, folks. Last week I saw a documentary about Harrisburg, PA, just one of many US cities that is completely bankrupt. This is due to the ignorance of the US citizens themselves; they voted, they choose this system that is crumbling and failing! Anyone that disputes this needs to read the NY Times or WSJ each day. Inform and educate yourselves. Don't make these same mistakes.

By Bill | November 7, 2011 6:48 AM

The big deal is that many of us are here for pragmatic reasons (ie a spouse) and have left loved ones behind. Personally, I will never give up my Canadian nationality because if anything happens to my adult son, he has nobody. And the Dutch government won't allow him to live here because he's too old.

Why would I want a Dutch passport? To vote; because I think that as a participating, tax-paying member of this society, that is my responsibility.

By CW | November 7, 2011 11:38 AM

It boggles my mind how insenstive so many people are about this topic. Many have dual nationality because they are married to someone from another country. Basically, these people need to choose one country or the other to live in, and often it is not a black-and-white or permanent decision. They may also live in another country to care for a loved one. In both of these situations the foreign national is usually already making a compromise, and to make it a decision that can not be changed is cruel. What happens if their partner dies – it would be very difficult to return to their home country.

By Quest | November 7, 2011 3:22 PM