Well I guess I'm never becoming Dutch then. Simple as that. I'm sure many others feel the same.

Then they'll complain that there are too many foreigners here. But it's a problem of their own making...

By CW | March 28, 2011 3:03 PM

"The minister is also planning to introduce compulsory language tests for everyone. Some people are currently exempt."

Can anyone please comment who are the exempt people? I wonder if it is knowledge migrants.

By david | March 28, 2011 3:36 PM

Do they intend this to apply retroactively for people who already have a US and Dutch passport I wonder?

By LH | March 28, 2011 3:37 PM

@david: Perhaps. Can't see them legally making EU citizens take them

@LH: That's my big question. Can you imagine the implications? They have no idea...

By CW | March 28, 2011 3:50 PM

@david
KennisMigrants need to take the full set of inburguring exams and practices as other people have to. Since January 2010, there is no exemption to KMs when it comes to the language tests.

By Sandeep | March 28, 2011 3:56 PM

I also wonder who are exempt because I am one of those high skilled inmigrants and it is mandatory for me to take the integration test, in my case the Staatsexam which is used also to become a Dutch National.

About the laws becoming retroactive, here in NL they can. I was talking about it with an HR manager who deals with plenty of high skilled foreigns and he told me that when the laws are published to "affect in a negative way' they are mostly retroactive.

With all this, the PVV still wonders why high skilled inmigrants leave The Netherlands and go back home, duh!

By MJ | March 28, 2011 4:04 PM

Exceptions of course will remain for those nationalities whose governments do not allow them to give up their nationality such as Morocco. Under the new rules the only people becoming Dutch will also be the ones keeping their other nationality and they will also be the ones that Wilders wants out while smart, experienced, market valuable knowledge workers will continue to see Holland as an inhospitable, rude and unwelcoming place that they can't wait to leave behind them after a short stint.

By M | March 28, 2011 4:10 PM

I think they're doing their own country a major disservice with this kind of close-minded thinking. How does having 1 or 2 passports make more you more or less loyal to one of those countries? Countries who currently forbid renouncing the nationality will not be phased by this decision but certainly residents whose home nation does not forbid it and who may be sitting on the fence (like me) & were considering getting the NL nationality—well that decision has just been made for me. This will only further open the chasm more betw the Dutch and non-Dutch.

By Michael | March 28, 2011 4:13 PM

Will this include Americans? I am married to a Dutch citizen but do not have Dutch nationality yet. I was planning to obtained it in a few years time but wanted to be a dual citizen. I don't want to give up my citizenship but need to have Dutch nationality in order to move freely in the EU with my wife. If anyone can offer me advice it would be really appreciated. Thank you in advance. (ps yes of course I understand that many countries expect this of you but what can you do when you want to retain your own citizenship but are married to a Dutch national and work in other EU countries?)

By Bryan | March 28, 2011 4:13 PM

Well I have no longer any intention of becoming a citizen or learning the language. I'm thinking more and more of returning to Australia and taking my skills with me, if enough foreigners did this we'll see how they feel about their stupid policy in a few years.

By Veldrin | March 28, 2011 4:16 PM

I agree, if, u want to be Dutch then u should have to pay taxes etc.. These people who want Dutch citizenship just were they can use it holidays (free medical) should not be allow. Also, they must live within the country for at least six months of the year. It,s about time that the someone takes a stand.

By Waddell | March 28, 2011 4:19 PM

This Can never be enforced.If I decided to become a dutch citizen (again since I was born in The Netherlands). I can never surrender my Canadian citizenship,which I've had for the last 50 years. Some counties like the U.S, Argentina, Canada and several others will not allow their nationals to give-up their citizenship. So this is an other pipe dream of the Dutch government

By Chris | March 28, 2011 4:25 PM

Yeah..right..good luck with that.

I hold 2 passports and have no intention of acquiring the Dutch nationality..

By Saladin | March 28, 2011 4:35 PM

After 5 years, people can have their permanent residence right, without becoming a Dutch citizen.

By Andre L. | March 28, 2011 4:50 PM

If I take Dutch citizenship I will lose all of my US government benefits and pension so I will not take Dutch nationality

By Robertj | March 28, 2011 4:53 PM

I don't personally understand why it's a big deal to learn the national language of a society you wish to join. It's not like Dutch is a vulgar or unpleasing language. I think it's a little odd that there isn't already such a requirement.

By Dave | March 28, 2011 5:06 PM

David and CW: why is learning a bit of Dutch so difficult? I'm not a fan of making it super hard to integrate here but I do think its simply respectful to speak to older people here in Dutch. In the US, France, Germany and most other countries this would be expected from us as well. What's the big deal?

By Bill | March 28, 2011 5:19 PM

I was considering getting becoming a Dutch citizen until I found out I had to give up my own. I'm a knowledge migrant who's been living here and paying my taxes here for the past 3 months. But as a matter of pride, not really keen on renouncing my own roots to become Dutch. Not to mention, for us (knowledge migrants) becoming a Dutch citizen means losing our 30% ruling. So hum... thanks! But no thanks! ;-)

By A | March 28, 2011 5:58 PM

I hold both British and Dutch citizenship. I also want to know if I will be required to give up my British citizenship if this law gets passed. It feels like a step back to me, and a lowering of horizons.

By Geoff Coupe | March 28, 2011 5:59 PM

I thought that the Dutch were becoming more and more globalized than the rest of the world. Now I see that they are putting a number of stumbling blocks every where to deter others from intergrating themselves based on their own volition. I believe that the will to integrate and have second nationality should be left for the individual to decide, not others to decide for him. I don't mind if a Dutch man goes to my country and possesses triple nationality as long as he contributes something good for that country.

By FA | March 28, 2011 6:01 PM

Is it even possible for NL to insist on Dutch language for all. Doesn't it go against the EU free movement of people agreement? If they do- who will pay for it?
I was happy to learn, glad my employer paid.

By Scotty | March 28, 2011 6:06 PM

What exactly is this proposal trying to achieve - if there is an exemption for those who cannot renounce their other citizenship, what on earth is the point in having the rule in the first place? Be consistent in all things - either state you must drop your original citizenship or you can't be Dutch (ergo if your original state won't let you, you just can't be Dutch, sorry), or bin the idea altogether and let anyone who meets the requirements hold 2 or more citizenships as well as a Dutch one. What's the big deal anyway - holding 2 citizenships really makes no difference at all unless you are dealing with state secrets.

By wedgie | March 28, 2011 6:10 PM

Bryan: You can acquire permanent residency, which allows you to live and work freely anywhere in Europe. You don't need full citizenship for this.

By CEK | March 28, 2011 6:11 PM

Ironic... on Feb 18/11 my sons and I became dual citizens.. Canadian and Dutch (I got mine back after 40+ years away)Now they are talking about taking it away again.. WOw, here they could have skilled, Dutch speaking citizens move back to the Netherlands, but we would never give up our Canadian citizenship.. (and Canada does not allow it anyway).. Boy after so long I had it back, now it is going to be gone again.. sad, triste..eigelijk.. Ik wil dat mijn zonnen het kans hebben om in Nederland te wonen als Nederlanders, jammer hoor!!

By caroline | March 28, 2011 6:21 PM

Michael @ march 28.
Don't sweat it. When you marry an EU citizen you automaticaly become a citizen with the same citizenship rights as those of us born in the EU. This means you have the right to live & work in any EU country of your choice.
You only lose those rights if you divorce.
Check out the Mastricht Treaty.

By Donaugh | March 28, 2011 6:30 PM

I hold both British and Dutch nationalities. i was born in England and came here at rhe age of 24. I have been here 37 years today. If I have to choose which nationality I will keep then its simple, I am a Brit and I will stay a Brit till the day I die. I took Dutch nationality so that I could vote in a general election.

By Heather Hennessey | March 28, 2011 7:02 PM

'I agree, if, u want to be Dutch then u should have to pay taxes etc.'
Poor Waddell - do you really think anyone applying for citizenship isn't already well known to the Belastingdienst? The people here are, in the main, high earners - yes, we move here and earn far more than the Dutch average wage - and we pay a stinking 52% tax too, MORE than your average Henk Smit, and this still isn't enough - they want our soul too.

I'm EU. I will not take a Dutch test, nor an integration exam. Come on PVV, try to repatriate me. You won't - I pay you more and take less than Henk Smit, dont I?

By osita | March 28, 2011 7:17 PM

@Donaugh:

Incorrect - Only possible if lived together with the EU citizen's passport issuing country for a minimum of 3 years.

B.T.W: no UK citizen is ever going waste his time with this silly exam...

By AD | March 28, 2011 8:24 PM

Regarding making this law retroactive: I don't believe they will do that; very few laws, if any are ever made retroactive. It would create a legal and bureaucratic mess and be too costly... and we know that cost is usually what steers these laws anyway.

By Quince | March 28, 2011 9:29 PM

Donaugh, that's not true. I am an American who married a Dutch person. I'm not automatically a citizen here, and do not have the same rights afforded a Native European. That may have been true years ago, but they changed the laws.

By Kaylara | March 28, 2011 9:30 PM

When my wife and I became Dutch citizens about 10 years ago we were required to give up our American citizenship - so in some cases at least this is nothing new. We were not required to take language or inburgering exams though.

This is just another xenophobic piece of crap legislation inspired by the PVV, and it shows just how low this country has sunk since we moved here.

By Dan | March 28, 2011 10:38 PM

I agree let them make it harder. some people come to Holland just to get the nationality also most refugees fake it most come here to make money. Some people marry only for money I wish they could make it hard like Switzerland and Demark. what should change also is the refugee system the lawyers make alot of money of them. Some refugees come and work black without paying taxes while the Dutch people work hard for them.

By tricia | March 28, 2011 10:43 PM

It's just over 50 years ago that I obtained New Zealnd citizenship and had to hand in my Dutch. Somebody had the idea that when you change You automatically separate yourself from your,family, you culture,you education etc. Well that is not so.I still like to see Holland win the world cup.I'm still interested to know what goes on there.But I cannot stay there for longer than a tourist or say some one from Turkey with dual nationality.
In the pre EU days I could disappear somewhere else in Europe for a while and return.Not anymore.But my granddaughter who has an Irish and a husband with an English passport can work and stay in Europe including the Netherlands.???

By AHJ van den Hurk | March 29, 2011 12:26 AM

Is the dutch passport better than other EU members passport? Oh holland, that piece of paper is just a travel document for a lot of us with all our skills, academic backgrounds and potentials, they still use the word hollander to segregate. Why pretending? Learn from others what real intergration means. Eg. U.S & CANADA.

By robert | March 29, 2011 2:54 AM

Yip, guess my decision's been made for me too - I'll keep my Canadian passport, thanks. It is a symbol of a tolerant, friendly, accepting country - not a xenophobic short-sighted one. I thought the idea was to make one proud of being a citizen, not ashamed. I'm absolutely floored that so many negative changes have happened in such a short time to this beautiful, little country. At least I know Canada will accept my Dutch husband. Once he's finished his schooling, returning home is looking more and more desirable.

By Milk container | March 29, 2011 6:57 AM

although I speak, read and write Dutch fluently, and I actively participate in NL society (volunteer work, active voter, etc) - I will never ever give up my US passport for a Dutch one - that would be pure insanity! the real danger of actual integration is that we foreigners WILL learn to read, write and speak in the native language and grow a brain and have a valid opinion and vote in the elections. This is what is happening in the Islamic community here. I imagine that scares the hell out of most Dutch folks, certainly the PVVer's

By Bill | March 29, 2011 7:07 AM

Some folks are reading way too much into this. They can't take away dual citizenship; there would be no way to enforce it. If the Netherlands wants to stay part of the EU (and they do), they have abide by EU law. This proposal only applies to people who come here to marry Dutch citizens; anyone else would essentially not be affected. For the record, the United States has *no* law that prevents you from giving up your citizenship. If you come to the Netherlands to stay with an EU (NOT Dutch) citizen, you would be required today to renounce your American citizenship to become Dutch. If you married a Dutch citizen that would not be the case.

By CEK | March 29, 2011 7:24 AM

@Veldrin: That's a bit rich coming from an Aussie, isn't it? They speak Dutch in The Netherlands, learn it. And if you don't like it there, leave. You know, like Aussies love to tell foreigners, learn the language and leave if you don't like itt in Australia. Not to mention your own immigration laws. Don't think they care if you leave. They have enough winghing foreigners there already.

By Dr. W | March 29, 2011 7:33 AM

Bill: My time has value. I am not gonna waste it learning a language only spoken in this small country to get my citizenship. I think I will also move back to my home country and taking my US education and Netherlands skills with me.

Sorry Netherlands, if you want a deal, I am willing to let you utilize my expertise beyond the grace period of 5 years and you give me your nationality. No? Then bye.

By david | March 29, 2011 8:07 AM

Danough: funnily enough, that doesn't apply in this case. If you marry a Dutch person and the two of you toto another EU country, you would have all the rights of an EU citizen, but in Holland that is not the case if you marry a Dutch person, which is difficult to do in the first place.

By Anon | March 29, 2011 8:19 AM

As far as I know, permanent residency doesn't allow you to work everywhere in the EU. I don't think it works in the UK, for example.

And, to clarify, everybody who wants permanent residency or citizenship has to pass a Dutch test, kennismigrants like some of you, or import brides like me. The only difference is, if you want neither, the kennismigrants can avoid the tests. That is what the government would change. You would probably be mandated, as I am, to pass a test within a certain time limit or your temporary permit won't be renewed. Of course, I'm just surmising, as we don't know the details yet....

By CW | March 29, 2011 8:23 AM

This would be the final straw.

By Frustrated | March 29, 2011 8:24 AM

What is the gurantee that after two years they will not pass another law, asking the immigrants to return their dutch nationality because they are not born here. Best of the best is home sweet home, particularly for knowledge migrants. It is logical and much better to work and pay taxes in our own home land and have a peace of mind.

By jerry | March 29, 2011 8:46 AM

I am currently working as a kennis migrant, but the real reason I am here is for my girlfriend/soon to be wife (she is a dutch citizen). We are going to get married specifically so I do not have to give up my USA citizenship. I would never dream of giving up my USA citizenship. What do they want!? I pay taxes here, work here, and I am learning the language! Dutch government is broken......

By The Man | March 29, 2011 10:07 AM

I am a British citizen who lives, works, pays taxes and spends my money in the Netherlands.I am learning Dutch and intend to stay here permanently.
I support both England and the Netherlands in sport although admit to confused emotions if playing against each other.
However, I don´t vote in English elections as I don´t live there and seems wrong for me to pick a government for others to suffer? I would like to have had dual citizenship as I am truly a dual citizen with dual loyalties....bit like a coalition government really but if I can´t have this, can I have my democratic right to vote in this country?

By Carol T | March 29, 2011 11:32 AM

I was reading an article which stated that of the ~16.5 Million people in Holland, about 4 Million are not natively Dutch. Seeing as how the Dutch love their business to be profitable, I wonder what would happen if the high-earning, high tax-paying part of those 4M left or were forced to leave. Ironically, I think the Dutch mind might say "Hey, we can solve the housing shortage at the same time!" (cue sound of the economy crashing). Change happens, but this trend of the right-wing slant in NL is starting to go way too far. It is time the pendulum started back the other way.

By Rick Kane | March 29, 2011 11:54 AM

When I read the comments here I have to ask myself, has any of you bothered to read thru the Dutch law. Most of the questions asked in the comments are good ones, but there are a few people here that seem to make comments that are just incorrect! Being born in NL does not give you the right to nationality, only blood does and there are stipulations on that as well. Moving about the EU with permanent Dutch status is allowed, you can even own property! Also stipulations on this. As for the tax questions, again read the rules. The Netherlands has a signed tax treaty with many countries against double taxation. I can go on and on here!

By The Dip. | March 29, 2011 12:22 PM

This is just typical right-wing bluster; Generally speaking, a nationality that you inherit by birth cannot negate another nationality inherited by birth. And conditions can only be set when applying for citizenship; it would be nearly impossible to retroactively force people to renounce their citizenship or to take away pre-existing Dutch citizenship without withdrawing from many international treaties/organizations.
@Bryan A US citizen applying for citizenship in another country technically must renounce their US citizenship, but as others have pointed out, permanent residence/marriage to an EU citizen affords you the rights you need; Americans can only be dual citizens by birthright.
@Bill if you think English is a requirement for US citizenship, try asking for directions in East Los Angeles.

By RC | March 29, 2011 12:24 PM

The Dutch, who were part of an open and welcoming country for hundreds of years, now are becoming more Puritanical with a closed society. What this will accomplish is that the Dutch will gain a reputation around the world of being a closed and unbending people. The country will steadily lose the revenue from tourists and visitors. Talented and knowledgeable people from outside the country will leave or stay away and those within the country will leave.

By Roger | March 29, 2011 12:28 PM

CEK...yes, the change in law would only affect me as someone married to a Dutchie (therefore, I think I'm allowed to be upset about it). The law already doesn't allow dual citizenship for those who aren't married to a Dutch person. I'm quite sure that if you don't provide proof that you've given up your other nationality, the Dutch would be more than happy to make your new one null and void.

And Bill...nowhere did I ever say that I was unwilling to learn Dutch. I have no idea why you think otherwise.

By CW | March 29, 2011 3:22 PM

I think that all these comments are just because each one is seeing the situation from "inside" Netherlands and not keeping a wide view of what happens in other countries. Try to settle down in Australia after the speech of the prime minister there, without speaking english or not knowing about their history and culture…try being a latin and get a green card in the US or getting medical service there without a medical insurance…try to get a working permit in UK…try to get in Spain without an european passport.Each country has their own restrictions and rules, let's not think that this only happens in the Netherlands and let's make a fair reading of the situation.

By AC | March 29, 2011 3:54 PM

I'm confused, surely this only matters if you WANT to become Dutch? What if you live here but don't want to become a citizen- that's ok too right? I am coming up to five years (here with EU citizen, I am from outside EU) and I assumed they would let me stay- not sure why I'd want Dutch citizenship? They want me to work here and they take my taxes and I don't plan to stay forever, this is ok, right?

By Bella99 | March 29, 2011 4:18 PM

"The people here are, in the main, high earners - yes, we move here and earn far more than the Dutch average wage - and we pay a stinking 52% tax too, MORE than your average Henk Smit, and this still isn't enough - they want our soul too."
@osita - we actually pay 52% for Henk Smit to work part time or even say he is sensitive to high stress and spend the days in brown cafes while claiming full benefits. I can not get over the high number of women working part time in this country because they just don't feel like working...

By expat | March 29, 2011 4:22 PM

I am holding on to my Indonesian citizenship, planning to buy a house in Bali for my retirement. I am collecting my money in the Netherlands.

By Chloe Kurniawan | March 29, 2011 4:51 PM

Bella, it's hard to say. I can't see them being able to force people from an EU to take a Dutch test. But perhaps they could make their non-EU partners do a test; I don't know.

Right now, as a non-EU person here for a Dutch spouse, I HAVE to take a test within a certain time limit regardless of my future plans. Those here for jobs (or here with non-Dutch, like you) don't unless they want citizenship or permanent residency. The article implies that this could change. Not sure how.

By CW | March 30, 2011 8:32 AM

For those that think they are 'above' having to learn a bit of the language and other simple conditions here, I have only sympathy for you. The Dutch government will happily keep all the taxes you are paying while you are visiting us. You will not get this tax money back. I do not think learning a bit of Dutch is such a terrible thing to ask!
CW: my apologies for misintepreting your comment.

By Bill | March 30, 2011 11:30 AM

Overall, the world is becoming more and more intolerant and I think that the era when 'globalization' was promoted has certainly changed. Today, globalization is only about market value and the human value is forgotten. Take the instance of marriage for instance, children born in these unions are both Dutch and foreign. How do these types of policies affect the concept of hybrid culture? Even in NL culture has changed and there is no 'purity'; many Dutch people speak English which is quite universal. I think that these policies target certain people and because the govt does not want to be known to be discriminating then the laws are made to apply to all.

By Mavis | March 30, 2011 12:21 PM

Bill, I think the issue is more the compulsory Dutch testing and possible time limits imposed rather than learning the language. Many of these people work long hours and travel a lot, and often miss classes because of that. They feel they give a lot back already and that the proposed rules seem punitive in what seems already a very stressful life.

By CW | March 30, 2011 12:51 PM

As a highly skilled migrant who has lived here for 2 years, I think this rule is only fair. Why do some nationalities get to keep dual citizenship and others not? this is the real discrimination, as a south african we have to give up our SA passport for a dutch one. Although south africans in the UK can hold dual passports. Therefore this is not SA's decision but the Netherlands force this on us. Therefore Americans, Australians etc should be treated the same.
Either you want to be part and proud of the dutch culture or we are free to go back and choose our birth countries. We have choices...they are not taking the choice away.

By Juan | March 30, 2011 12:57 PM

@Bill: The real 'above' ones actually have 30% tax ruling which means they pay less. At any rate, if the government is so ignorant to loss highly skilled people for the sake of tax money, let it happily be.

Coincidentally, I talked to a Dutch manager today who was complaining of terrible time he has to fill some openings for expert engineers. He mentioned it is much easier to get highly skilled people in the US than in the Europe than in the Netherlands. I only had sympathy for him.

Still wanna force us to learn Dutch for citizenship? Bye.

By david | March 30, 2011 4:27 PM

Bill,

Learning Dutch should be encouraged and is in itself a great thing to do. Being told you do not belong even when you speak Dutch or your chances are severely impacted just because you are an "Allochtone", is what ticks me off. This will largely target the people who need it most. Kenis Migrants hardly need this bull crap. I am going through a Dutch course arranged by the gemmeente and I could not believe that some Allochtones being forced to do this even though they speak fluent Dutch)!.

By Saladin | March 30, 2011 5:05 PM

@Bill: Learning a bit of Dutch is not a terrible thing to ask, of course not, but when the only course that has been "offered" to me is from the University of Utrecht and is €1045, what the...? How can they complain on the one hand that new immigrants don't learn the language but then expect one to pay that much on the other? Next I am going to ask the Gemeente - I've heard they might offer cheaper courses because €1045 is beyond ridiculous.

Dear Holland: If you really want people to learn your language, HELP THEM when they ask for it.

By Maru | March 30, 2011 5:19 PM

To those folks who wrote that Canada does NOT allow Canadian's to renounce their Canadian citizenship.....That is nonsense. There is no such restriction!

Please leave the manure spreading to the farmers.

P.S. If you want to prove me wrong, then tell me the exact chapter, section, and clause in the Canadian Charter or Rights and Freedoms, where it states so.

By DabbaDabbaDew | March 31, 2011 4:46 AM

after moving to a village ,after living in AMS for 17 years,after working 19 years here in The Netherlands,employed to speak english in my job,for a major airline,last Dec I recd a imburging invite ,I was told that if I was still in AMS, I probaly would have been exempt.When I leave my house in the morning,Im not back home till 5:30 , and now this palce exspects me to go and sit in a class room,2 times a week, for 2 1/2 hours?Sorry, Im a 58 year old man , I have enough stress in my job, to have to do this,and in 2 years ,I am 60, and then I am exempt,from inburging any comments on this ?????

By joe | March 31, 2011 8:01 AM

Sure, Juan, I agree. We should all be treated the same. We should ALL be allowed to be dual.

By CW | March 31, 2011 8:20 AM

It seems that if the courses are not compulsory, very few people seem to be able to make time to take the language courses. There are always more important things to do, but I can understand how this threatens and frustrates Dutch natives - this is THEIR country, not ours. And who said the courses would be cheap? The benefits of the system here are also not cheap, why should the language courses be cheap? My opinion is if you really want to stay here, then make the necessary sacrifices. Somehow the idea of making sacrifices to reach our goals is being lost. I have never benefited from the 30% tax break by the way.

By Bill | March 31, 2011 9:33 AM

Joe, these are multilingual people who learnt their 2nd language as children. They have no clue what it's like to learn a 2nd language in adulthood, especially approaching your age and while you are working full-time. And they don't care. "Regels zijn regels" (which can change at any time)

...and Dutch is the ONLY thing that counts.

After 19 years, do you think you could pass a test? You legally don't HAVE to take a class, just pass a test which is far from the fluent level. Explore your options and don't take their word as gospel. They have a quota to fill for the inburgeringscursus.

By CW | March 31, 2011 9:45 AM

Wake up governments - dual nationality is the future. Have a chat with your grandparents and ask how many of them had 'dual whatever'. On the other hand, I'm a 35 yr old NZ'der with; NZ and Croatian passports, had a UK visa for 2 yrs, now have permanent NL residency (here 8 yrs and hired for my native English tounge) and recently acquired a 10 yr permanent residency US green card. The many weddings my Dutch partner and I have gone to have primarily been cross-national unions...and their kids...well... Human is human, it's just about respecting one another and one another's countries/beliefs. Work that one out PVV.

By childoftheworld | March 31, 2011 2:42 PM

Bill: What benefits are you talking about?

Maybe you refer to every1's same average life style (excluding drug smugglers)? Yes, if one is homosexual, or a drug addict, or a smuggler; she a lot of "benefits".

What else? BPM? BTW? A good engineer cannot even afford a quality family sedan!!! The average sedan of the US (Camry) is like a luxury car here. The loan interest on a new car is 9%! Shame.

What more? Very enough eye doctor specialists? Very low income/sales tax? Very inexpensive country? Very good food? Nice smoke-free restaurants? Top notch research institutes?

By david | March 31, 2011 4:39 PM

Joe: I live here 15 years, and I live in Amsterdam. Last February I was asked to take a shortened inburgerstoets, which was actually relatively easy considering the number of years I am exposed to Dutch language and culture. I did not even question the rational of asking me to take the test; seemed perfectly logical to me that I was asked to take it. Living in Amsterdam does not make a difference in any case, nor does the length of time you have lived here. I did not see it as being 'forced' to do something either. To be honest, I think it should have been required some 15 years ago, when I came here in the first place!

By Bill | April 1, 2011 7:02 AM

David: I am talking about receiving 70% of your current salary for up to 18 months should you become unemployed, for example. But you seem so full of negative feelings that I think its best for you to go back home. Maybe you will be happier there, I hope so for you!

By Bill | April 1, 2011 9:51 AM

to Bill:
"To be honest, I think it should have been required some 15 years ago, when I came here in the first place!"
It's easy to say that now!!! it's like giving to a university student a primary school exam!
in fact the inburgerstoets was given to a sample of "native" Dutch ... between 30 and 40% failed it!

By to Bill | April 1, 2011 11:17 AM

Bill:

When I came here, I realized salaries are lower than the US and tax much higher and life more expensive. My Dutch colleagues were like, Yes, but in the US, you don't have job security. In the Netherlands you do.

Now you are telling me, if I am laid off, I will get some unemployment benefit? Does it mean there was no job security in the first place in addition to the low salary and high tax?

I hope you enjoy Netherlands too. Just pay 3x the money of a Honda accord in the US for just one in the Netherlands. Plus, like 8 dollars for a gallon of gas. And 120 dollars for a Levis jean.

By david | April 1, 2011 9:33 PM

Interesting to think about: Princess Margriet of the Netherlands was actually born in Canada and the royal family lived in Canada for a number of years during the war.

It is globalization is becoming more and more part of every culture and it only follows that more and more people will have dual citizenship.

I have dual nationality with Canada and the Netherlands and feel privileged that I can.

I am the first person in my family for several hundred years not to be born in the Netherlands. I was raised by Dutch parent, grandparents, aunts and uncles etc. There is no way I can separate my heritage from where I live and therefore am glad I'm not asked to.

By Anneke | April 6, 2011 8:42 AM

the dutch government keep naggin our head with human rights, u wont get a second nationality if you dun have the right for it. besides lets not forget how they r blaming foreigners about all problems going on in the country. there is no other word to think about but hypocrisy. man if all these high skilled foreigners leave coz of a stupid law you guys will go back to farms and got nothing but selling cheese, milk and cows. stealing other countries aint going to work these days, the US is doing it very right. wake up and smell the coffee its 2011 and we r talking about double nationality, black and white. achterlijk gedrag!!

By patrick | April 9, 2011 1:25 PM

Well there goes my plan for moving back to Holland. I remember it being hard enough to get a year student visa when I was an exchange student two years ago, I can't imagine going through the nationality process now! I also don't think I would want to give up my American citizenship either, I don't understand why they're making that law-isn't become a Dutch citizen show enough loyalty to the country?
However, I do understand the mandatory language testing and such. I feel that it is important to learn the language of the country you live in. I know from experience, it is very tough to live in a country and not know their language.

By Olly | April 13, 2011 9:16 PM

Anyone else find it the least bit ironic that PVV is the "Partij Voor Vrijheid" (or Party for Freedom)? Freedom for who? They obviously don't believe in freedom for all, that is for sure...
Just a thought...

By Jeetje | April 13, 2011 9:18 PM

Olly
You being a U.S. citizen, and understand the mandatory language testing, and feel it is important to learn the language of the country you live in. Then you should write to our U.S. congressmen and senators and get the U.S. law changed so naturalized U.S. citizens learn to speak English. While your at it make sure to have them throw out all the illegal Mexicans.

By Louie | April 15, 2011 3:23 AM

Re: Canada not allowing one to renounce Canadian citizenship.

Balderdash! There's even a form for it. You can renounce your citizenship if you want. Google the words "renounce canadian citizenship" and the FIRST hit takes you to the GC website, http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/renounce.asp. Given that the CDN gov't just became ultra right wing and dictatorial in nature it might not be a bad citizenship to renounce :(

By Eric | May 5, 2011 2:07 AM

PS It is strange that the right wing and populist parties have such a hate on for dual nationality. Why is it such a bad thing? Most progressive countries in the world allow it and have experienced great success with it. Going back to the dark ages is not the solution to the prejudice celebrated and encouraged by the likes of the PVV.

By Eric | May 5, 2011 2:10 AM

@CW from 30 March who wrote "As far as I know, permanent residency doesn't allow you to work everywhere in the EU. I don't think it works in the UK, for example". Correct. it is not valid in Denmark, UK or Ireland. And not only is there a form on the CDN gov't website, you even have to PAY for the priviledge of renouncing your CDN citizenship....

By Michael | May 5, 2011 7:57 AM

@Bill. I have witnessed too many times foreigners try to speak Dutch (no matter what their level of gramatical accuracy what should count is that THEY ARE TRYING). What do a lot of Amsterdammers do? Answer in ENGLISH? This is complete arrogance and does not bide well for someone who may already be having trouble learning the language. Can you imagine this happening in Germany or Italy if you tried to speak the local language. They would be HAPPY you're making an effort....period.

By Michael | May 5, 2011 10:09 AM

Initially they will apply this to refugees and then slowly they will apply it to everybody. They have this practice through out history. To target the minority and the expand it to the majority. May be in the second phase, they also amend the law to the dutch as well, that they can not get a dutch nationality unless and untill they have a diploma and a record of minimum salary for 5 years. Because majority of them are on social benefits and hesitant for hard working

By JK | May 12, 2011 10:26 AM

@ Michael. This is a left-over from after the war and not arrogance at all. The Netherlands was liberated by the British and Canadians and, as a result, the Dutch rushed to learn the language of these, their heroes and were (and to some extent still are, at least the older people) proud to show off their prowess. They were paying you a compliment by answering in English. Learn some history.

By WoodsUK | May 12, 2011 5:33 PM

My father is Dutch. He was born and raised in the Netherlands. He met my mother, fell in love, moved to the US and became a US citizen. I was told by friends that because of my Dutch heritage I can also get a Dutch passport. True or false? I'd like to have a dual passport.

By Drew Kleibrink | May 20, 2011 5:44 PM

Hi Drew, If your father was a US Citizen at the time of your birth then you will not be eligible for NL Passport/Nationality as Dutch law states that your Mother or Father MUST be Dutch at the time of your birth. If you are a Dutch National and take another (say US Citizenship) nationality when over the age of 18 you will automatically loose the Dutch Nationality as Dutch law does not generally allow for Dual Nationality, However there are exceptions. My Father too is Dutch, and a similar situation to yours, he moved to Australia etc. However he was not an Aussie Citizen at the time me and siblings were born and we got the Dutch Nationality.

By Ben | May 27, 2011 12:58 AM

When I first came to Holland, nearly everybody answered me in English when I was trying my limited Dutch. But, I paid no attention to this, I just continued in Dutch anyway - why should they decide which language I speak?

It must have looked silly - conversations for 10 min where they spoke English and I spoke Dutch ... but it probably helped me learning quicker.

By BB | May 27, 2011 4:13 PM

Joe, after living here for 19 years, how come you don't speak Dutch anyway? How do you shop, handle the doctor, hospitals? Surely you don't expect them all to talk to you in English? Why should they? Try going to the UK (for example) and expecting everyone there to speak Dutch.
On the other hand I think it's ridiculous not to be able to have dual nat. My son, who currently has both Dutch and British, will give up his Dutch nat rather than his British one, if he has to, even though he lives here and Dutch is his mother-tongue.

By WoodsUK | May 27, 2011 4:30 PM

I started learning Dutch when living in Belgium and absolutely loved it. The teachers were fantastic, the courses cost a pittance (50 euro a year!) and the teaching style was modern, informal and relaxed. I then moved to the NL and started classes here. The very first day, the Dutch teacher ridiculed my 'Flemish' accent, insulted my home country, and made it clear that she thought I had no place living (let alone paying my taxes or meeting a skills shortage) in hers. The result? I am now totally ambivalent towards her language and the growing number of the narrow minded people born here. I cannot wait to leave it as soon as possible!

By Steve | May 27, 2011 4:43 PM

@WoodsUK. Thanks for your illuminating if not mislead thinking. Using your logic the Dutch who lived through the war would be hostile to German tourists b/c of history but they seem to have no problem speaking German. The youth, however, who STUDY the language in school, pretend all too often that they don't understand the language and far worse--are downright rude and ignorant to German tourists. Sorry but I've witnessed this COUNTLESS times for it to be a mere coincidence. Telling a German to go home is not my idea of being tourist friendly. Maybe it's time to UNLEARN some history and just learn to be respectful. Don't use history as an excuse.

By Michael | May 27, 2011 6:41 PM

Carol summed up my position perfectly. After 25 years here we and our children are bilingual, and we're loyal to Holland. BUT we can't have dual nationality (we're British - don't know how Heather got dual nationality, it's not allowed now). So, we can't vote here (except locally), nor in the UK. Disgraceful - we pay taxes and make use of all the benefits of living here, but are disenfranchised. I'm not sure what happens to my kids when they turn 18. I would *love* Dutch nationality, but don't want to pay a fortune for the privilege, and don't want to renounce my British passport. I will always *be* British, after all.

By Sarah T. | May 27, 2011 8:51 PM

With all due respect I just cannot imagine why anyone from any non-third world country would want to becaome Dutch. Why? What does the Dutch nationality hold that is so magnetic? It is a small over crowded country with bad politics, over taxed, expensive health insurance and a widening poverty gap, the future for Holland looks quite bleak with the current crisis that are not willing to go away not least the poor government they currently have. I see no attraction whatsoever, Canada, NZ and Oz are far more better than any central european country just now.

By Andy | May 28, 2011 11:16 AM

@WoodsUK one more time: Since the topic of this article is about intregation and making it harder to become Dutch and NOT about history, maybe it's necessary to make the Dutch aware of one more thing. If they are going to implement such procedures/hurdles to make becoming Dutch so undesireable--like Sarah T, I will never renounce my Canadian citizenship--they should think a moment about what they are doing. By speaking English to foreigners who are trying to learn their language they are effectively UNDERMINING their own project of integration. Help the foreigners learn Dutch and don't use us for free English lessons. I get €40 an hour for doing that at the university. Thank you.

By Michael | May 29, 2011 1:04 PM

@Steve...imagine that you had already lived in NL for more than 10 years and was offered NO intergration package whatsoever. I learned the language on my own (mainly via work). Then suddenly one day the Dutch have a brilliant idea that all foreigner with a "green card" have to take NL lessons offered via the gemeente. TOTAL WASTE OF MY TIME. I spend 4 months attended lessons 2x a week for 3 hours and at the end gave up because I was correcting the teacher's grammar. She was unable to explain the grammar of her own native language. Total waste of taxpayer money. And what does that NT2 certificate mean to me now? NOTHING.

By Michael | May 30, 2011 3:39 PM