Well, a little common sense finally prevails.

Now to actually provide a quality course with quality teachers and computers that actually work...ah, a person can dream...

By CW | September 10, 2010 3:26 PM

It's about time! Unfortuantely, many of the "desireable" immigrants (educated tax payers) who had a choice have already left.

Those of us who were not able to leave will be forever hardened to much of Dutch society for treating us so badly.

It was all a waste of time, money and stress, and did not solve any of the problems that the small minded bureaucrats were after.

By Quest | September 10, 2010 4:59 PM

I live in the Netherlands for about 10 years and teach in English in a Dutch university. But last year I received a letter from the city hall and I was asked to take the integration course and to pass the Dutch language test! Although I do not speak Dutch like a native speaker, I have found no difficulty in my life here. Hence I also thought that it was nonsense to apply this regulation to people like me. The city hall says that it would cover my tuition fee for language school, but Native Dutch residents would also think that it is unnecessary to expend tax payers' money for me.

By buitenlander | September 10, 2010 7:16 PM

I also got called in along with all of my foreigner friends! We all have to go to Eindhoven at our own expense (we live in Heerlen, near Maastricht) and also pay for the test ourselves. The lady who interviewed me said there's 0 chance I won't pass it, yet when I question even being asked to take it (when I passed all the requirements over 7 yrs ago after taking the integration course) she said it was because of people who have lived here for a long time and don't speak Dutch. In her interview it was quite obvious I speak Dutch just fine after living here for 9 years!

By LJK | September 12, 2010 2:16 PM

An American person working in Amsterdam for 20 years; has not learnt Dutch because they speak English at work and buy their shopping from shops with English speaking staff. They also watch only English speaking TV and socialise with English speaking people so do not understand Dutch customs.

A Turkish person working in Amsterdam for 20 years; has not learnt Dutch because they speak Turkish at work and buy their shopping from shops with Turkish speaking staff. They also watch only Turkish speaking TV and socialise with Turkish speaking people so do not understand Dutch customs.

In both scenarios the people are contributing to society and are in Amsterdam legally but one is above the law and the other not!

By Jonk | September 12, 2010 4:08 PM

Finally something respectful and some common sense.

And to Jonk: Yes, unfortunately, some people are above law by their birth place.

By david | September 13, 2010 8:12 AM

Good. Get rid of these stupid tests. I was a little surprised to see people getting worked up because it depends on where you come from. But even these rules have been screwed up in the Netherlands. My partner and I are both Irish and have lived in Amsterdam for 7 years. 2 years ago our son was born and even though he got a letter welcoming him to life from the then mayor Job Cohen and an iamsterdam towel he was refused a Dutch passport because his mother isnt Dutch. Now thats a pretty exclusive club. What a crock! I would be annoyed if i hadnt already come to expect this amount bureaucratic bull from the system of this fair country.

By langer | September 13, 2010 9:26 AM

i have lived in Amsterdam for 5 years. My wife is Dutch. I am educated, manage a business full time (hotel), volunteer at an animal shelter and coach a Dutch youth basketball team here in Amsterdam. I have many Dutch friends. I do not speak Dutch. I suppose some would rather not have the 20 hours a week i volunteer (above my full time job) to children and animals here in Holland, nevermind the taxes i pay. Clearly, speaking Dutch is essential to being a "integrated" memeber of Dutch society. Which part of Dutch society am i missing by not speaking Dutch?

By Robert | September 13, 2010 9:49 AM

Jonk I agree with you, at the same time I believe EU citizens who live here should be forced to do the inburgering because I know many English people who have lived here many years, do not speak Dutch, the same with Polish and other Eu citizens. I think it very hypocritical to tell An american to inburger and not an English or Polish person. If it is impossible to force Eu citizens, then the law should be obolished because we depend on USA and Canada just as much as Eu citizens, if not more so. Really now, they are really no different then us and it is embarrassing to many of my friends and family with the laws here.

By sandraV | September 13, 2010 10:34 AM

After living in NL for 14 years I had to take the inburgerstoets. There was not one piece of relevant info on the test for me. There were however lots of questions about registering for long term unemployment benefits and applying for all kinds of subsidies. Very modern indeed.

By Bill | September 13, 2010 11:00 AM

@ Robert - you would be surprised by what parts of Dutch society you are missing... its sounds like you have tapped into Amsterdam society quite a bit. But to be honest, Amsterdam is quite different than the rest of the country (much more international focus). But I hope you can imagine all of the countless events, information, and activities that are conducted ONLY in Dutch and take place outside of Amsterdam. I think you would be very surprised to see how much you limit yourself by not speaking the native language of the country in which you reside.

By Broseph | September 13, 2010 11:41 AM

Nobody should be forced to take anything until they have something worth taking. The whole inbuggering system is a bureaucratic mess and the quality of classes spotty at best. Until then, I will never believe that the program has been instituted as anything but a disincentive for foreigners to stay in the country.

By CW | September 13, 2010 11:46 AM

Personally, I have been living here for 6 years, French native, fluent English, business women, but find it extremely difficult to learn Dutch and not because it is a difficult language but just because of most Dutch people's attitude, being not very patient and very proud of their english, when I tried my best to understand them and therefore switching within 2 minutes to English. Maybe the Dutch should wonder why so many foreigners do not speak their language. I don't believe there are many countries where it is possible to live for years without speaking the language. Still I have hope to master the language one day because personally I believe it will help my understading of the culture/country.

By katerine | September 13, 2010 12:47 PM

Dutch is a dying language. Look how much English is creeping into the daily conversation of young Dutch adults. Forced tests for "buitenlanders" are about as relevant as non-Welsh speakers being forced upon anyone who moves to cardiff.I speak enough Dutch to get by- but this arrogant posturing from the government here makes me refuse to utter a word in the language.

By Edward Ka-Spel | September 13, 2010 1:32 PM

Be born in a country obviously does not mean being integrated into the culture and values of that country. For example, trying to implement Nazi practices (ethnic registration). All the rest of the world recognizes, from the Nuremberg trials, which is a clear sign of social maladjustment. Nor has nothing to do with our culture and traditional values (freedom, dialogue, agreements, cohabitation). Adopting such values of our hated invaders (koran ban implemented by old Spanish Inquisition, too) is rather a betrayal to our country. So a compulsory integration test for these countrymen would help them to integrate and solve many problems.

By zenplus | September 13, 2010 1:37 PM

I am British and lived and worked in the Netherlands for over 20 years, with a global electronics company.I applied for Dutch language lessons, but was refused on the grounds of:
1. My job was to communicate globally in the English.
2. I only wanted to learn Dutch for social use, i.e at parties or in bars.

Anyway, I tried to learn by myself from books and CDs, but lost enthusiasm, because every time I tried to speak Dutch, people would say 'Don't bother our English is better'. What to do? I think the Netherlands should be classified as a bi-lingual country, a bit like India where English is the 2nd official language after Hindi.

By Andrew | September 13, 2010 4:05 PM

Lets be honest here... Holland's native language will be English within 50 years, Dutch people's level of English is far superior to our poor Dutch, and Dutch people will almost always speak back to you in English if you - an english speaker - attempt to start a conversation in Dutch. I don't have a problem with this, Dutch is an ugly language and you all speak English so well.

By Phil | September 13, 2010 4:09 PM

sandra. . you seem to have an economic death wish! I am an international consultant and I am English -- I have chosen to live here in Amsterdam because it's a wonderful city; I may be here for two years or four or five -- I don't know. But I certainly have no intention of learning Dutch (I understand a bit but that's it). My argument is that if Amsterdam wants to be really successful it needs to make life easier and more gezellicht for people like me, rather than sounding so unfriendly, blinkered and unwelcoming. . . . sorry to be tough but you're sounding as if the world has left you behind. . .

By a Brit from Jordan | September 13, 2010 6:06 PM

I did inburgeren, it was a wastage of my time and government's money.

By Jehanzeb | September 13, 2010 9:57 PM

Glad about this! I live in Gemeente Rheden and I asked about study for the NT2 course several years ago. They told me its compulsory that everyone who lives here has to complete an inburgeringscursus first before studing for the NT2. I come from an european country and I volunteered to study Dutch to improve my chances for work and so I can communicate. Everyone found it ridiculous that I had to complete the course including my mentors and the examiners. I actually found it embarrassing to prove that I can PIN for money from a cash machine (something I have been doing since I was about 12). Shame I didn't live in Nijmegen/Arnhem.

By Anon | September 14, 2010 11:35 AM

sandraV...EU citizens are different than americans and others...because we are in a UNION...have you seen what the requirements are for europeans to get a VISA (1 of the 10 kinds) for the States and work there? or Turkey, or India? soplease, check the situation in your home countries also and dont complain too much

By kostas | September 14, 2010 11:58 AM

Anon, there is now an NT2 "traject" for the inburgering course. I'm currently in it. This is for educated westerners who know how to pin and take the right bus (presumably) as we do. After you finish, you must take the staatsexamen which is at level B1 or high school level Dutch. I'm presently at A2 and finding the class too fast, too short (10 weeks!) and difficult. If the goal is that we should pass, why they are rushing us through like this is mystifying to me.

By J. | September 14, 2010 5:43 PM