Oh this is just great, now all the Islamophobes will come out of the woodwork and because just one Muslim woman has a warped misguided view of Islam. I do not understand why you did not say Dutch citizen rather then Dutch Moroccan in this article? The way this news article is written, pointing out DUTCH MOROCCAN is only going to add more hatred to the Dutch society that is already full of hate and discrimination against certain groups of people.

[Editor's note: point taken]

By sandra | November 3, 2009 7:15 AM

No smoke without fire.

it is not an affirmation Sandra, it is a question I raise to you.

what do you think?

By Emeric | November 3, 2009 11:45 AM

What should catch ones attention are these words from the article:
"The mother-of-six lived in The Hague for more than 20 years and the Dutch authorities were also involved in the inquiry, the BBC said."- This was a 'seemingly' normal person, in the UK 3 years ago a DOCTOR drove his car with explosives into an airport. Cry Islamphobia if you want but it is things like this that cause greater concern than the obvious terrorists.

By bet | November 3, 2009 1:10 PM

I agree Sandra. The use of 'Moroccan' is not helpful in any way. However I must take note with the comments in your last sentence.I have been living in Amsterdam for 8 months and almost all of the problems I have encountered on the street are with Dutch 'Moroccan' youth. I'm trying hard not to discriminate against them but they are giving me too many reasons to do so. For example, I have been shoulder charged at a pedestrian crossing in Amsterdam and Rotterdam within the space of three days. I was simply standing at the traffic lights, waiting for them to change, and on both occasions I had a young Moroccan male deliberately walk into me. A bit strange given I was standing still with plenty of room around me. I've also been told to "get f*&ked" because I rang my bicycle bell at one of them because he was walking in the fietspad, next to a very wide footpath (I had nowhere to cycle as there were bicycles coming towards me). I've also seen three young Moroccan men refuse to get off a fietspad after a scooter driver used his horn from 100m away. In the end, one of the youths thought it was funny to knock the hat off the scooter driver as he rode past.

Where is the respect from these guys? I think that is why many people don't like them. It's all about respect and sadly they show little of it in the public domain. Hence why my patience with Dutch Moroccan youth has waned thin.

By Howard | November 3, 2009 1:14 PM

Sandra & Editor,

I am starting to have two currently conflicting points of view on this. (Note I am Dutch and living in Morocco and a Muslim).

Yes probably the article should have said Dutch Women and then in the text point out she is a mother, lived 20 years in den Haag and then point out she is Moroccan - her name would have given it away anyhow.

As much as I dispise the Islamophobes and hate-mongers both in the blogosphere and in politics, there is a legitimate concern and real and existing fear amongst many Dutch and westerners in total whom are concerned about the radical and extremist Muslims in the West.

I think it is important to point out events but to ensure the perspective is give totally. So that should also include that the Dutch and be sure the Moroccan authorities will take every ounce of intellgence collection from this lady whom almost certainly was a courier 'mule' because she was a mother, wore the burqa and was suseptable (apparently she has some mental-health issues).

This story is not over by far.

Regards, interested in any views and points on this from both Sandra and the Editor - if possible.

By Solkhar | November 3, 2009 1:18 PM

Solkhar, I look at some of the naivety in some of these posters and can see why we have a handful of Dutch youth with a Moroccan background that has behavior problems. They are constantly reminded almost on a daily basis that they are NOT Dutch, they are second class citizens and don´t belong here therefore discriminated in everything from their education to jobs to a simple health club membership. These same youth that Howard is mentioning above are the same youth that are born and raised in this country, their country, the Netherlands. What does one expect the outcome is going to be when these boys have to hear nasty comments about their religion, their ancestry culture, their skin color etc everyday of their lives? I am jewish, I am Dutch and I know from past experience with the loss of family members in the second world war what the mentality in the Netherlands is like, to blame all outsiders for all ills in society. Before it was the jews, now it is the Muslims and after the Muslims, who is it going to be next? Not just the Netherlands, it is Europe against anything that is different by their standards. I may not approve of the USA war on terror and the lousy choices they have had for past presidents but I can say that they at least treat an American citizen as just that, a citizen and not blame people for societies ills because of their ethnic background or religion. I will again say as I have said in the past. Why is it that the United States has thousands of Americans with a Turkish or Moroccan background who are never mentioned in the news? Why do they not commit crimes in USA but here in Holland the citizens hardly go a day without blowing out of proportion a Morocaan did this or a Turk did this or a Muslim this or that? Simple, they are not treated differently or like second class citizens in their own country or then any other Americans. Maybe Europe needs to get out of the dark ages and stop being hypocritical. Freedom of speech does not mean insulting ones religion or ethinic background. Wilders wants the first amendment in the netherlands like the USA, well let me tell you, the first amendment for free speech also gives freedom of religion for citizens and Wilders cannot have that law and cut part out. I would very much like to put a stop to all this Islamophobia before we end up with world war 3, and I am sure we all know that Europe will surely lose if it comes to that again. Hate always loses in the end.

By Sandra | November 3, 2009 2:53 PM

Sandra I think the US does not mention Moroccans or Turks as trouble makers because even though there may be 'thousands' there, it is proportionately a very small percentage of their population compared to NL.

The US has other nationalities causing the problems - it used to be Irish, Italian mafia, hispanics, Columbians, and now Mexicans.

And Holland has Moroccans, whose parents often have an ingrained hatred of Causasians and the West - maybe due to the causes you cite - and pass it onto their kids, who stay out late causing trouble and harassing law abiding citizens.

I hear from my teenage sons that it's nearly always Moroccans causing trouble and trying to start fights.
You can excuse it by saying they are hard done by, but it doesn't change the fact.

By Steve | November 3, 2009 5:39 PM

Nice one Sandra, yeah, lets blame the poor Moroccan youth for ALL the Dutch problems. Or should we go back to hating the Jews again? Being of Jewish parentage, I ecstatically HATE all racists! I have been to Morocco years ago (1974), lovely people! In fact every country in the world has friendly people, really! It is however unfortunate that the religious bigots and racists continue to spoil the harmony between nations. I have traveled around quite a lot and been treated like a king. I can only find fault in the lies that are spread by, - our government controlled (1984)media!

When they eventually get around to censoring the internet, I will immediately cancel my subscription for to my IP!!!

By stevie | November 3, 2009 7:36 PM

Another patsy in the phony war on terror.

By pim | November 3, 2009 8:49 PM

Well said Sandra.

By Solkhar | November 3, 2009 10:28 PM

Sandra,I understand the causes of racism. I have mixed descendancy (Asian and Anglo-Celtic) and I understand that some young people may feel excluded from mainstream society.

I used to live in Australia, the most multicultural nation on Earth. I'm well aware that there are good and bad people in every society, that is has nothing to do with race or ethnicity. But I don't receive the aggressive stares or the shoulder charges from anyone other than Dutch Moroccan young men. I have to use ethnicity here to explain who I am referring to. And it seems to me that there is a problem with this part of the community.

I still don't know why I was deliberately hurt. I didn't do anything to deserve such treatment. Therefore it all comes back to respect towards your fellow human being. If I went around causing trouble, would people like me? Of course not!

That's why people are voicing their concerns about Dutch Moroccan youth. Sadly there are racists, like Geert Wilders, who are take advantage of people's concerns and fears to push their own vile agenda but I'm pretty sure most people are just concerned by the increase in violence and intolerance within their communities. I never noticed this when I lived in Sydney for the past 30 years but I have certainly noticed it here in Amsterdam. This saddens me because I always thought the Netherlands was a liberal, open minded and friendly country. In many respects it still is but its foundations have been weakened. Let's hope we will talk things through and find a peaceful way forward.

By Howard | November 4, 2009 9:16 AM

Howard, thank you for your explaination. I missed something in your earlier post, you said it was in Amsterdam. That explains a lot! Amsterdam for one thing is like a small new york city with of course less crime, but I would never want to live there unless I had no fear and lots of money, ha!
I have a question, How do you know these boys are Moroccan Dutch by the way? A lot of times people say Moroccan because they assume a persons skin color means they are this ethnic background they think they see or they look Arab in their eyes. One must be very careful because there have been made many unfortunate mistakes on identity that have caused great grief to innocent people, including false identification. There are many mixtures in the netherlands that can be questionable since Europe has had it´s fair share of wars and mixed marrages for centuries, after all look at Wilders, he is mixed himself. I would say at least half the Dutch are of mixed descent, if you take a good look I am sure you would see it yourself. I see it all over Europe, although the racists far right would like to have you believe otherwise, it is there and it is obvious and whether they want to accept it or not, all of Europe is multicultural and there is no more pure anything. By the way Howard, Welcome to Holland, I am sure you are a nice person and if you lived in my area, you would find nicer people!

By sandra | November 4, 2009 12:15 PM

Hi Sandra

Good point re: "How do you know these boys are Moroccan Dutch by the way?" To be honest, I don't. I just assumed they were Moroccan Dutch because they make up a large part of the community I live in. But point taken, they could be anyone.

I must say I know my local community would be in good shape if there were people like you living there :)

By Howard | November 4, 2009 3:17 PM

Hi Howard, I just wrote you a very nice response and I somehow messed up and the entire thing got erased. This dumb computer! Anyway, to let you know, Brabant is a very nice area to live, you must check it out sometime. By the way, I have raised four boys of my own and let me tell you, they were holy terrors at times, but they grew up to make me proud in the long run so they were worth the heartache and headaches.

By sandra | November 6, 2009 6:25 AM

Sandra, I actually cycled through Brabant when I cycled toured Holland and Belgium this year. I stayed in Dordrecht and Breda, both nice towns. I thought Brabant was one of the prettiest parts of Holland.

Ha...I like your comments about your four boys...wow that is impressive! I think there was a famous world leader who once said that although he had taken his country to war that was not hard when compared to rearing his children!

By Howard | November 6, 2009 12:22 PM

Howard,

I recommend Nord Brabant anytime, many ancestors from there. Try the forest areas near the Belgium border south of Tilburg - I have a lot of family in Boxtel and Vught, the latter is next to an old part of what was the Black Forest and you will feel as if you are in a fairy tale or gone back in time.

In fact ride your bike south to Poppel in Belgium and if you are a beer drinker (I don't drink) there is a cherry and strawberry beer that is famous for that town.

Cheers

By Solkhar | November 7, 2009 2:06 PM

hello Sandra, i couldnt agree with you more. Mr Howard, i am a Dutch citizen from a Moroccan background and i should tell you that the media coverage in the Netherlands of moroccans is partly to blame for some of the (mis)behaviours of young Dutch moroccans. It doesnt provide its community with any sens of unity, pride or selfrespect. "what im i having to lose, my reputation and that of my parents is already bad" im often been told. Inappropriate behaviour is present in every community, and especially between its youth, but to highlight the nationality or background everytime a young man/woman misbehaving doesnt not live up to journalistic standards and ethics in broadcasting. Even worse it is pouring salt on the wounds of integration.
To ask you a personal question: how would you feel if you're constantly being pointed out by the media as the bad MOROCCAN, ANTILLIAAN or TURKISH, accounting for the majority of thefts and crimes? those youth are raised in the netherlands, if anybody to blame it should be the their media. From my personal experience i just wasnt a fan of being part of this community, psychologically expressed by me refusing to embrace the Dutch language (even though it was crucial to continue my study) and the culture, despite my admiration and respect to the Dutch and Dutch culture.

By Jasin | November 16, 2009 12:29 AM

And for the record i bumped into this website googling the resentment feelings towards MOROCCANS if they are expressed with the same tonation in my next country host.

God forbid that would be another psychological nightmare that i should wrestle for another couple of years.

By Jasin | November 16, 2009 12:48 AM

Sandra: Hate always loses in the end.
Stevie: Being of Jewish parentage, I ecstatically HATE all racists!

"Anti-racists" like to classify groups of people as 'racists' so they can hate them.
Funny.

By Steve | November 27, 2009 3:20 PM