Being recently settled in Holland from Germany I can see huge differences in the healthcare system. In Holland the healthcare system is basically crap. Many rules and small letters in the insurance policies... Doctor fees are ridiculously expensive! The fact that you pay a part of your salary + a private + the first 220 euros (to be 350) is absolutely destructive for people. Moreover, I have seen that there is not serious importance given to prevention but more at treatment. And as usual the citizen has to pay for deficits made by banks and golden boys. Good luck Dutch people!

Setting rules for the benefit of big insurance companies, at expense of the general public, seems to me highly counter productive. Let them have their fair share and limit their profits to have a health care system that actually works for the benefits of patients and a healthier country. It´s really bad we became just statistics.

First of all, thanks to DN for specifying what the comment box should be used for, this is very helpful.
I clearly do not think this is a good way to save money. Raising these costs will automatically exclude many low income people from getting the health care they need.

The medical care in Netherlands is so bad already - the system, its bureaucracy and the 'philosophy' of the medical sector is is to avoid costs. To do so they avoid doing necessary exploratory exams (exams? yes that is done in other countries - they just not talk to you) so we never get really a diagnosis and therefore no need of treatment. If the few things they do pay for (medicines, etc) are going to come out of our "own risk" - this most be without question the most expensive insurance system in the world - specially considering how little medical attention we manage to get out of this exorbitant premiums.

That's enough. I want to quit the mandatory Dutch health insurance. For 1790euro/year (120 Euro per month + 350 own risk) I can collect enough money to pay for everything myself and probably still save big part of it.

This is an out and out disgrace. While the politicians jockey to score points, using the economy as an excuse, the public are, as ever, the victims. Holland is steadily becoming a land where good healthcare is solely the prerogative of the rich who probably, like most of the politicians, benefit from private healthcare. So, if you get sick, euthanasia might just be a viable (and cheaper) alternative.

How about taxing all the EU cars that are running on the highways free from road tax...? that would bring in money

@Dee: that is ridiculous. Dutch cars go abroad as well.

STOP viewing motorists as some sort of cash cow that can be ever milked for more money.

Who would ever have thought a Dutch politician would not be able to talk out a bill? Was it stagefright or did the clock strike 5pm.

how does it help the deficit if the public pays an extra 130 euros which should come out of the insurance companies pocket? who is it benefiting other than the insurance company you are with. utterly ridiculous. less and less reason for expats to stick around now that 30% ruling will also be scrapped soon

I agree that cars should all be taxed . the healthcare my husband & I have had over the last 30odd years has been very good,but we are on a very low pension & will find it imposible to pay the extra costs .

@Jakub: you don't pay the 350 own risk if you don't use medical services on that amount first place.

And it only takes a minor surgery to blow that annual budget anyway.

Even until recently, I was bragging to my family and friends in America about how much better the Dutch healthcare is. They seemed to just care more. Not anymore. I'm so sick of this nonsense. We pay over 200 euro a month for the 2 of us and now 700 a euro own risk for what? To be told to put half an onion next to my bed and take a paracetamol? EFF THAT. I want to do my own insurance. We'll put the amount we pay a month into a 'health fund' and pay 100% out of pocket for our healthcare. I bet we barely spend any of it! I'm so upset over this.

Yes this is an excellent method to save money for the insurance companies and the government. It is a win-win solution for them. Yet we remain paying more for an already reactive health disservice.

My 4 month old son has had conjunctivitis for 1 month. The Dutch GP continued to state it is a virus and just leave it. 6 days ago we visited our GP in France who said it is a bacteria infection and prescribed antibiotics and notice acid. Total cost including medicines: €38. The conjunctivitis has already cleared up. We saved money by going abroad.

Yes, I do think that is the best way to save money.

I am a health care insurance consultant in the US visiting here on holiday. In my state, the norm is $2,000 USD own risk, and then a 20% share until $5,000 USD total spent at which time insurance pays 100%. This has a huge impact on cost because by having a larger own risk, the patient/consumer AND their doctor think more about the treatment and diagnostic tests they issue. People always make better decisions with their own money than they with others money. Health care (doctors) are just too expensive.

I remember not so long ago I used to get a rebate because I never claimed anything. Now my insurance is 45 euros more and offers me less cover and own risk. Total rip off!!

I also agree that taxing cars and motorists more is good idea. I'm happy to see more like minded people here in that respect. Particularly if you choose to commute each day as a single person in an automobile (versus carpooling) I think you should have to pay much more taxes.

@Bill: try living in a small dorp and working in an office park and using public transportation. It is just impossible to be done. People who have the option to commute by train IN THE SAME OR SHORTER time than by car likely do so. But that is just not the reality for the majority of workers who have families and want to live in a not-so-small house in the countryside while working in the Randstad!

Fortunately the commentators on this site are very unrepresentative of the Dutch electorate! Too many "North America lifestyle escapees" wanting to push the Dutch back to 1970-style politics.

@Laura K, So until recently you thought the Dutch system was better then the American. Now because of the own risk you don't think so anymore. Fair enough. But now all of a sudden you also complain about paracetamol prescription. What is it? Is it the money or the quality? The latter you though was better until recently.

In the Netherlands insurance companies have to accept everyone. Even those with a terminal condition or people who have a condition that will costs thousands of Euros a month. This is called the "solidariteitsbeginsel". This comes at a cost.

@ Bill. When I moved here in 2000 I was advised to do without a car if possible.
But I work in construction which means I often have to travel to locations with no public transport. Take a look at ads for construction work, see if you can find one which does not say 'rijbewijs en eigen vervoer is een pré'.
For some a car is a necessity. Not all of us can take a 1/2 hour bus ride or get to work on the bike.

I am originaly from Romania (a third world country by dutch standards) but I am more than happy to go back home for any non urgent healtcare, just because in there you pay like 80 euro's a month and youa re fully inssured by the best private hospitals in the country, not to mention the dentist costs which are like 25% of what is in holland, and you get better treatment in a very modern cabinet with knowledgeable doctors.
And regarding the car taxes, I live in a small village where the closest buss is a 15 min walk, not to mention that the bus visits 3 other willages before it gets me to work, car is 3 times faster.

sure Andre, whatever. My and the others views on this - once again - have NOTHING to do with '1970-style politics'. This is something in your own mind. Good luck with that.

Taxing motorists is already done to the hilt, typicaly leftist view wanting people to pay more tax so that their mates kan sit at home on uitkeuring. 25% increase this year alone.

@Bill: please seriously, let's not drift off topic here as I don’t see why I should pay more taxes because I’m driving solo on my way to work and back everyday!

I’m one of those who will be really feeling the impact of these €350 own risk fee, because due to a chronic illness I’m permanently on medicine and have no choice but to spend the own risk amount every year. I’m not sure what will happen if this carries on year after year as I remember that own risk fee was around €120 when I came here a few years ago.

Andre: do the recent articles on here about NL topping the international traffic jam list or 'Netherlands near bottom of WNF clean energy tech ranking' - do these articles say anything to you sir? anything at all? I see you have a family and kids; don't these articles and the information alarm you? I'm trying to understand why you incessantly defend driving your car. You do understand that motor vehicles emit well over 900 million metric tons of CO2 each year worldwide and that these emissions account for more than 15 percent of global fossil fuel CO2 releases, don't you? These are recent figures; nothing to do with the 1970's - nothing.

The actual cost of healthcare in NL is Eu5,000 per person. The taxpayer is topping up the shortfall by 80%.
Insurance companies have no incentive to reduce or negotiate costs in fact it is against their interests.
Switching to a tax based system without insurance companies
but with proper regulation would save 20% or more

Any way you look at it, the increase to €350 for own risk is too much. Keep it up you idiots in government. You'll be looking for jobs like the rest of us soon.

@Bill: The privilege to own and drive a car here is already among the most expensive in all of Europe. A lot of the road taxes and especially the ridiculously high petrol taxes are used to subsidize your beloved public transport. Increase these further and you will see people like me who are net contributors to the social system here leave in a hurry. Then expect to see public transport subsidies dramatically decreased. Be careful what you wish for!

I am one of these single occupant auto commuters. It's not by choice! Taking public transport means taking 1 tram, 2 trains and a bus to get to work for a total of 1.5hrs and it's only 33km (30mins by car).

@Bill Its easy to say that sitting in Amsterdam. The place I live has only bus services. so you cant reach it by train. I need to also change three buses to get to where I work. Adding the waiting time between the buses, It takes me like an hour and 45 minutes to get to work. If I use my car, I can get to work in 30 minutes. So don't pull that "Everyone should only use public transport" on me. Cars are a necessity in this modern world.

In general I have had very good experiences with the Dutch healthcare system. whenever I needed something done, I got it. However, the increasing of the own risk, actually makes me think twice if I want to go to the doctor. i rather wait longer instead of getting things checked out, being afraid, that the invoice of 220 or soon to be 350 hits at an unexpected moment. one should be able to go to the doctor without worrying how much it may cost.
And I have heard from some doctors, that they like the way the dutch do it, that you do not get antibiotics, just because the patient expects something...

@Glouden - while that theory sounds logical (mainly because it has been repeated so much), it is simply not true. Social scientists have studied this question thoroughly. Increasing own risk payment amount (deductible) has no statistically significant effect on the use of medical services. People in NL already do not like going to the doctor and already go only when they need to, regardless of factors like own-risk costs.

hmmm somehowe we have all turned this into a discussion about cars and commuting to work, me included - funny, us humans! anyway thanks for all the feedback, I try and learn from you good folks.
bottom line though: the health care system here is in BIG trouble. many people will avoid getting help based on this high deductable. this will not end well, in my opinion.

I think some clarification is needed on how the Dutch health costs work. The basic health care package, defined centrally by the government, is available to anyone, irrespective of pre-existing conditions etc.

For that basic insurance you can also get zorgtoeslag if you are poor.

However, the premiums + eigen risico don't cover even 60% of total health care costs! The government step in for the difference with the "sick funds" from general tax money.

Increasing the "own risk" is essentially raising taxes but giving a rebate to those who are healthy and don't use that much services.

@Bill: the 'issue' I have with your line of reasoning (and that of the person who names StupidNL and the one who names CW) is that you always attack the modern life, no matter what, and then try to lecture how Netherlands should avoid "US-style" health care/transportation/education/wathever.

I always WHAT? What is your definition of "modern life" exactly? I have no rose-coloured view of the past, trust me.

And, I don't totally agree with Bill. It's lovely if you can live and work in Amsterdam, but most of us can't...

My husband tried public transit to get to his job at Schiphol-Rijk and the 20-minute drive became a 90-minute dash between buses that refused to connect or show up at all. Complaints to Connexxion were pointless.

So we have a car now after a year of trying to go without. In an ideal world, public transit would be invested in and work properly, but we don't live in the ideal world.

Jackie L (and others). If you are chronically sick, you may get a refund of your 'own risk' contribution, by law (Wet tegemoetkoming chronisch zieken en gehandicapten).

We weren't aware this until the government organisation (CAK) contacted us by letter to let us know, but their webpage has the eligibility criteria (worth a look?!) Here is the link:

http://www.hetcak.nl/portalserver/portals/cak-portal/pages/k1-3-tegemoetkomingen-en-compensaties.html

The genuine chronically ill have less to fear from this than the moaning-but-otherwise-healthy :)

@Andre L- Thank you, you have hit the nail on the head.

And to answer the websites question- No the best way to save on healthcare is not to make people pay more, this will stop people getting proper healthcare & result in more expensive long term costs. The best way to save on health care is to stop giving masses of people from overseas who have never paid any taxes a free ride, this is the true stress on our welfare system & will eventually lead to full privatisation or the government going broke! Bill you seem so anti privatisation so I challenge you to look at the real problems from a non PC point of view

@Andre First have poor people pay and after that reimburse them, is not a good way. For 2 reasons: 1) a LOT of reimbursing money does not go to those who need it because people don't know how to get it (just stating the facts here), and 2) if you have no money in the first place, you will thing twice/thrice/more before you spend it.
I think Bill is right: raising health costs/own risk/anything people have to pay for themselves, will result in more people going to the doctor too late or not at all. Even with reimbursement measures, health care will become more and more a rich man's luxury.

@Robert said: "Increasing own risk payment amount (deductible) has no statistically significant effect on the use of medical services."
Sorry, but I find it hard to believe. I haven't gone to a dentist in ages because I don't have the money...

@Bill, there are two parts to each problem
The solution to warming and emissions is not just simply taxing cars and telling people not to use them.. but also(and mainly) by planting more trees and creating a tree forest within our cities.
And the solution for the healthcare system is not to put the blame on the public, but to introspect and account for where that money was spent. We can start by examining the salaries of insurance company executives. quite a few millions would be saved straight away.
However, no surprise, no one wants to talk about the second part since the first part of each problem is regarded as the easy 'fix'.

@Andre: The issue I have with your comments is that you construct straw man arguments like the whole 70's thing. Bill is right that automobile dependency is bad for holland, he backs up his claims with facts and statistics. You back up your claims by simply insisting all of these things are part of "modern life" as if they're inevitable and there's nothing that can be done. Then you deftly put as all into one category of North American lifestyle escapees. Hello Andre, most of us are Knowledge Migrants with high paying jobs. Please sir, cut down on the insults and half-truths!

Thanks but I've had enough of trying to talk sense to certain people here. I have better things to do. Even my own reactions are becoming childish! Let the news about 'modern life' in the Netherlands speak for itself for a while. I have read this news every day for a good many years, and the news only gets worse each month and year for the past 15 years, as the situation get worse here. But anyone can see this news and about how NL is 'developing' - you all do not need me pointing that out. I have no interest in getting into personal arguments here, and absolutely no feeling for being attacked on a personal level. Good luck.